Lube! How? What? When? What environments?

borebrush

Not Pumpkin
Moderator
#82
Every time you post it is pure snark and confirmation bias. You claim a ridiculous round count in a low-round count discipline. That's not even the most egregious of your claims. Your experience is no where near on par with Sully nor Tore.

Then you make prejudiced statements about professional end users, accusing them of neglect when rust is a natural occurrence anywhere in this universe when oxygen reacts with materials. That is complete horseshit and an mental easy button response to something that doesn't fit in your crafted reality. I have had weapons rust in transit, on mission. It has nothing to do with neglect, ass.

Your attitude is what lands you in this situation. You can stay here and learn, or you can leave. You certainly have ZERO business telling anyone how to handle defensive/duty firearms in a professional manner.

I have fixed an entire Connecticut SWAT teams rifles who were frozen shut due to Frog Lube in sub freezing temperatures. The fact this real occurrence doesn't fit your reality in a fucking duck blind is a laughable. Shut up and color.
 
#83
Mcameron,

I expect the engineers I interview to be a bit more civil during a discussion, especially when there are differences.



Jeff Lester, P.E.
also on a side note...if youve never heard anyones ideas or designs referred to as "shit", " complete shit" or "complete and utter shit"......youve obviously been sitting in on nicer design crits than i have......
 

Jeff Lester

Moderator
Moderator
#84
Mcameron,

Again, you don’t know me. You’ve assumed a lot. I’m being civil.

To be clear, when I say mute, it’s a figure of speech. I’m not silencing you on the forum. I’m simply going to stop listening to your drama.
 

Tore Haugli

Moderator
Moderator
#85
@Mcameron, when you say "you might want to reevaluate some things in your life", that isn't very civil.

Disagree all you want, but your tone is not conducive to a good discussion.

Now, regarding the HK416N, you are wrong. It was a couple of days, as it was a soldier in my platoon. And do you not understand the term condensation? The weapon was not put away wet - the temp difference between the outside climate and inside the barracks caused condensation to form.

I mentioned the arctic and the desert, as the OP called for you to frame your reply in a context.

If your context is smallbore prone and duck hunting, that is fine. Use whatever floats your boat.

My context in this thread is military duty use and there is a reason we use dedicated firearms lubricants. They pass MIL-PRF-63460, which states the requirements for performance for a weapons CLP.

You can read it here:
http://everyspec.com/MIL-PRF/MIL-PRF-030000-79999/download.php?spec=MIL-PRF-63460F.055745.pdf

This ensures that we get consistent performance every time.

As you say, an engine requires something different than a firearm, so why use something intended for an engine - a closed system where the lubrication serves a completely different purpose?

And a spotless weapon does not equal a well maintained weapon.
 
#86
Every time you post it is pure snark and confirmation bias. You claim a ridiculous round count in a low-round count discipline. That's not even the most egregious of your claims. Your experience is no where near on par with Sully nor Tore.

Then you make prejudiced statements about professional end users, accusing them of neglect when rust is a natural occurrence anywhere in this universe when oxygen reacts with materials. That is complete horseshit and an mental easy button response to something that doesn't fit in your crafted reality. I have had weapons rust in transit, on mission. It has nothing to do with neglect, ass.

Your attitude is what lands you in this situation. You can stay here and learn, or you can leave. You certainly have ZERO business telling anyone how to handle defensive/duty firearms in a professional manner.

I have fixed an entire SWAT teams rifles who were frozen shut due to Frog Lube in sub freezing temperatures. The fact this real occurrence doesn't fit your reality in a fucking duck blind is a laughable. Shut up and color.
calm your tits Mr.T

1) 100K for a competition shooter is not "ridiculous"......but for someone who only gets monthly or annual qualification training.....yeah thats a lot

2) properly maintained metal parts dont rust that severly in "just a couple days".....they just dont.....so yes, that is neglect.....sorry but thats the truth....maintain your weapons better.

3) you talk about my "attitude"......but youve been giving boatloads of attitude....at least Jeff has been civil

4) youver never trained with me....but based on my opinions on lube...im not "qualified"......enjoy your close mindedness.

5) how often does a swat team operate in sub freezing temps.......much less fire their weapons?........if anything a hunter in this environment has more experience than your average swat team in working in inclimate weather.......spending weeks on end and firing dozens of rounds every winter actually using their weapons.

ive also run FL in my carbines and sidearms through training and courses......never had any issues with it then either......

im not a advocate for FL.......its not my favorite......but applied properly ive had no troubles with it........


you can quit the tough guy act.....honestly no one is intimidating through the internet....i dont know who you are trying to impress here.
 

Pat Tarrant

Custom testicles
Moderator
#87
There have been several mods here trying to give you a course correct. Thats what some people call a clue. Reel yourself back in, evaluate your situation, and drive on accordingly.
 

borebrush

Not Pumpkin
Moderator
#88
I am calm. I just hate being lied to and wont tolerate that here.

1) That's 273rd's a day if you shoot everyday. That's 1,923rds per Saturday if you don't miss a week...

2) Obviously you are new here and you don't know who Sully is, so the fact you don't even know me is not a shock. You are so far out of your lane, you don't even rate to comment on what proper maintenance is in the profession of arms.

3) Again, you are peddling bunk advice that is patently wrong. You are lying if not at least grossly overstating your own claims and experience. That's lying.

4) I don't train with liars. Liars are outed.

5) In Connecticut, a good portion of the year is cold. They have an entire season for the cold, called Winter. Frog Lube failed once their service rifles were normalized to the outside air. This occurred within minutes of taking them out of their cars. It was the third week of January, and a high of 17F with 30mph winds. Again, you should understand that living in the NE and shooting year round to get up to that 273rd per day.

I shudder to think that you actually portend to teach people defensive use of firearms.

Lastly, you listed nothing in your experience that requires an ounce of mental toughness. So you calling me or anyone else here out as "tough guy" is a real stretch.
 

MrMurphy

Regular Member
#89
Condensation.. ah yes.
We have a few dozen 6920s with constant rust issues because they are coated in rem oil, sit in air conditioning driving on patrol, then go from 65F to 100 plus outside. They rust within a few days.

My personal rifle is wiped with a Tuf Cloth and has zero issues. I learned the hard way with an issued M4 in a/c to 140F while deployed. Can't convince higher to switch.

And knowing Jeff personally.. he is being VERY civil. Borebrush is just being himself.

I also hunt. While there are extreme conditions at times... very little in common with duty/combat use.
 
#91
In the army we used regular CLP, it worked for it was. I used it for my personal weapons originally because it’s all I had known. I then swapped to fireclean on my personal weapons and found that it gums up fairly easy if the guns sit for any length of time. We used CLP and then swapped to frog lube at work for the Sig P226’s (when we carried them) and on our M4’s. Same issue as with fireclean. We swapped back to regular breakfree CLP. For my personal weapons I swapped over the Slip 2000 EWL since it’s a heavier lube and was recommended for carry weapons or weapons that sit. (Or machine guns/select fire weapons)
I wipe mine down after every use. It’s been common for me since it was required in the military and after every in service training while working at different nuclear sites. For guns that sit, probably every 4-6 months a good wipe down should happen just to check for rust and corrosion but I honestly haven’t followed that myself. For dusty environments (ie Iraq, powder dust storms), we used graphite (?), a dry lube. It still accumulated dust but it was definitely better than wet lube. (2004-2005, might’ve changed since then.)
What environment was the FireClean in when it gummed up? I’ve had FrogLube do that but never FireClean and I’ve used it exclusively for years. I’ve seen enough people say that it does that I’m very curious about it.


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Justin11b11m

Newbie
Network Support I
#92
What environment was the FireClean in when it gummed up? I’ve had FrogLube do that but never FireClean and I’ve used it exclusively for years. I’ve seen enough people say that it does that I’m very curious about it.


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I used it when I didn’t train, mainly shot 1-3x a year and at most 200-300 rounds. It would be indoor and outdoor ranges with very mild use. I noticed my firearms would be sticky after pulling them out and fiddling around with them if they sat in the safe for any length of time. My Glock 19 malfunctioned on me at my TN carry permit class though I will say it was my fault. I added oil to the firing pin safety plunger because it moved, not knowing it would get inside and gum up. Once I cleaned it out and the pistol started working again, I cleaned most of my firearms and reapplied with Slip2000 EWL. I train a little more now and my weapons see extensively more use but I also haven’t had any issues with the stickiness that both Froglube and Fireclean caused. I still have some bottles of because I may use it again at some point and give it another shot.
 

Phil Combs

Jerk Ingredients Off
Moderator
#96
I've not had an issue with fireclean in my pistols. The Sr15 however seem to get "sticky" after being stored for a while even after doing the whole correct process. Hasn't been a big issue yet since it isn't anything but a side gun for now.

Have gotten feedback from a friend, unknown if he's on the forum, that fireclean gummed up his 1301tac. But that could have been the issue BoreBrush brings up so will bring that up next time we talk to confirm.

From here I'll just stick to the trusty slip2k spray bottle as its done its job in the Jim Sword.

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#97
Fireclean gums up when its used with any other products in the gun. There is an entire protocol for applying it, ect. I aint got time for that.
I did the initial application process on maybe two guns. I stopped caring by the time I got to the rest of them and have yet to have an issue. Have definitely mixed it with Slip before too. I’m very curious at to what actually causes it since I’ve been using it for at least 4.5 years without issue. I’ll should be back on the mainland in either October or November and will definitely check the rest of my guns then. It’ll have been a year since they were last touched, and almost five since the BCM has been fired at that point. Every time I go back, I check to see if it’s gummed up, hasn’t yet. Stored in a bedroom cabinet so climate controlled, but no rods or anything like that. My 1911 is there too so I’ll have a few platforms to check.


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nightchief

Fighter of the Daychief
WARLORD
#98
Have any of the professional/hard use folks here used the ALG Go Juice to cold/freezing environments? I've been using the Go Juice for about year-and-a-half. I'm in Texas where its rarely colder than 30 degrees (last winter not withstanding) and my experience has been range training and hunting only.
 
#99
I had the exact same issue. Deployed, had fireclean on all of my guns locked away in pelican cases with dessicant. Came back, slightly tacky on the pistols and rifles but no issues. Function checked my 1301, seemed fine but when I went to fire it, it would light strike. The fireclean decomposed and was so thick that the combination to firing pin spring and gummy fireclean was slowing the firing pin down enough to prevent detonation of the primers.
Fireclean is fine if you're constantly shooting and reapplying and cleaning. But not fine for storage.

I have also seen froglube turn to a semi-solid in below freezing temperatures; no-go criteria right there.

Boring CLP and LSA work. I have good experience so far with the ALG Go Juice.

Have gotten feedback from a friend, unknown if he's on the forum, that fireclean gummed up his 1301tac.
 
I used all the normal stuff for years- Rem-Oil, Break-free, etc.

Then I learned about Slip EWL, 'round about 2007, in a class. It's worked really well for me, ever since. I live and work in what could be called a "moderately dusty" place, with temperature fluctuations from 100+ in the summers, to -20 in the winters. My personal and duty pistols, rifles, and shotguns often have a fair amount of frost or condensation on them from temp. extremes. The Slip EWL seems to hold up well to that, without leaving any nasty residue.

Slip has also often been "the cure" for malfunctioning guns in high-round count training environments. A few drops on pistol slide rails or a squirt onto rifle locking lugs, and the student's gun magically came back to life.

If I have a complaint about the stuff, it would be the nozzle of the bottles it comes in. It's too big for precise gun application and will leak in gear bags if you don't put the red shipping plug back in.