Lpvo first vs second focal plane

Farmboy20

Regular Member
With 1-4,1-6,1-8, lpvo first focal plane let’s u have ur zero and bdc true regardless of magnification. With the second fp there is a shift with the zero/BDC. How big of a shift is on these low power variable optics when ur shooting with an AR between 50-400 yards?
 

user12358

Regular Member
There isn't shift of the zero at all with a second focal plane optic. A second focal plane optic will only have an accurate BDC or mil reticle at a specific power, usually the highest. This isn't a big deal with LPVOs because the only time you are really using the reticle for hold overs is past 300 yards in which case you are already at the highest magnification. FFP gains you almost nothing in a LPVO and gives up eyebox and FOV.
 

Ryan St.Jean

Regular Member
There isn't shift of the zero at all with a second focal plane optic. A second focal plane optic will only have an accurate BDC or mil reticle at a specific power, usually the highest. This isn't a big deal with LPVOs because the only time you are really using the reticle for hold overs is past 300 yards in which case you are already at the highest magnification. FFP gains you almost nothing in a LPVO and gives up eyebox and FOV.
Well said.

I think focal plain is a very valid discussion in higher magnification scopes typically used for longer distance and precision shooting.

I think the consensus for carbines and LPVO is the the difference/ benefits of FFP are negligible so the cost is not worth it.
 

PJIV

Newbie
Some issues I have with 2FP optics and BDCs.

I do not always get to pick what magnification I use because of atmospheric or tactical considerations. If I have a 2FP optic this can really come around and bite me in the ass if you have not done your homework.

Saying shooting long targets results in just max magnification works well on a range but not much more.

2FP shines in competitive applications, however from a combative standpoint and even IMHO competitively, a 1FP is still the way to go. There is so much more you can do with a 1FP optic than you can with a 2FP.

As for BDCs. I never liked them. If I ever got an optic with a BDC (ex. Mk6 1-6 with CMR-W762) the first thing I did was look up its mil measurements from the manufacture then take it to the range, and at 100m with printed off graph paper essentially, checked the mil measurements.

The only time I have ever used a 2FP for any amount of time, was the Razor II with a mil based reticle. The first thing I did with that, was take it to the range, and check its measurements, across its magnification range, then make file cowitness marks on the magnification adjustment ring so I had a visual and slightly tactile feel for my mag setting.

I think a lot of people look at LVPO's like a red dot that has magnification. Which works. However you are selling yourself short if you dont embrace "scopeology"
 

Mike_IA

Regular Member
For 1-6 scopes FFP adds weight, gives up eye box, and gives up field of view. And for what? An adjustable reticle that is either too fine at 1x or too coarse at 6x. I mark (measured) half power on my SFP 1-5/6/8 scopes- so I have a usable reticle at 1, half, and max magnification. I have never needed a reticle at 4x or 2x that wouldn’t have worked at one of my 3 predesignated spots.

The tipping point for FFP utility is 1-8x using Christmas tree or Horus reticle for greater distance work (with a FFP 1-8 I pick a power that works for the terrain and then adjust as needed)
 

pointblank4445

Established
I've been DEEP into the LPVO game going back to the mid/late 2000's first gen Short Dot 1-4x. There are very few that I haven't tested at the tier level of the Razor HD II and up.

You can't paint every LPVO with a broad brush. I've used some FFP's that were plenty forgiving, and SFP's that tight and unforgiving. One such example is the Short Dot 1.1-4x20 CQB FFP vs the 1.1-4x24 Short Dot LE SFP. The later in SFP is way less forgiving than its FFP brother. There are other examples but that is the plainest apples-to-apples comparison I can make from the same mfg.
It's all about the construction, dimensions, etc. You won't know what you don't know until you get behind it, and that still won't give you a complete picture until you take it out and use it. "Window box" reviews are the plague of the optics world.

FFP really doesn't come into its own until maybe 8x...and its use and viability in a LPVO is greatly dependent upon several factors. The most critical (in my opinion) is reticle design. If the mfg. in question doesn't have access to LED/Aimpoint/Short Dot/Flash dot tech and is reliant upon heavy illumination of the reticle (or similar variation), a circle-dot is almost mandatory to be perceived as a "dot" at 1x for any hope of close-up use. Where a lot of people screw up the 1-8x FFP is in their duplex lines. Most people today want to skeletonize these when they should be using them as a mainstay for the 1x setting and creating a more or less simplified German #7 or a sort of "floating" dot centered between bold posts at the 3,6, and 9 o'clock positions. Leupold did this on the CQBSS, S&B did it on the 1.5-8x26, and NF is doing it. Good on them.

While my general use optics often stay on the lowest power and my long-range toys stay at 8-12x, I use my entire magnification range. I think people sell themselves short in not doing so. I know 4-6x is my max magnification for wobble in attempting distance without support. I know 1.5-2.5x has served me well for warrant services for giving me a broad picture of the scene, but more than the naked eye. And I don't know how many times I've been at an observation post dialing in and out not paying attention to my mag ring and settle on some oddball 5.5x or 7x setting to get a building side in FOV.

Another problem I constantly see is people's lack of context on the use of LPVO's or precision optics in general. There are a lot of people that are late to the party (and that's fine) that only know things like the Leupold MK 6 or Razor HD II. If something automatically does not afford them the same visual experience, it's often dismissed. Marginally less forgiveness in they eye box or eye relief does not mean an optic is unusable.

It's all a balancing act. Know what you need and what you can sacrifice.
 

Mike_IA

Regular Member
I agree with then statement on context. A guy doing precision work/DMR work looks for a certain suite of features and an assaulter/action gamer looks for a different suite.

Long range scopes are a whole different can of worms (that is closer to DMR style work). I will zoom up to max magnification to spot or ID targets then zoom back to the 8-15 window to shoot. And I usually walk around at minimum magnification.

Depending on my LVPO I run different stuff: my CQBSS I pick a power that works and run. My 1-4/5/6x assaulter stuff works at 1/half/full power.
 
Top