Long Grips and Short Slides: What Am I Missing?

krax

Member
Network Support I
#21
Why can't you grip the magazine itself? I've done that for years with my G26. If the problem is that it looks funny, then why not a +2 extension on a G19 mag? Both would provide extra grip area, both would be cheaper solutions than creating a new frame type (i.e.: the G19X), and neither would create a new pistol that is incompatible with G19s that are already in the .mil supply system.
I guess if I had the choice (and sometimes I do), I'd rather grip the big, girthy Glock frame than the narrow magaine.

All of the reloads on my belt are 17 rounders anyway, so I could give a shit about compatibility.
 
#22
This is what they stipulated.

We discussed it in the last modcast.
"This" being long frame/short barrel because government? Sadly, that's the explination that makes the most "sense".

I guess if I had the choice (and sometimes I do), I'd rather grip the big, girthy Glock frame than the narrow magaine.
Do you really notice a difference between your pinky resting on the frame and on the magazine? If so, you're a better man than I'll ever be.

It still begs the question: why not +2 extensions; they're the same width as the frame itself...
 

Matt Landfair

Matt Six Actual
Administrator
#23
Take a G19 and place it over a G17. Not much difference. This is why I have a couple G19s and no G26.

The G19x is meant to be a duty gun - like a cop's sidearm. It is not meant for civ concealment.

Sight radius difference isn't that drastic between a 19 and 17.

For sitting- the shorter length of slide is less problematic.
 
#24
... so why not just use a G19?

I've worked in manufacturing for a few years now. I can tell you that the difference between being able to run into the back room and put part "A" onto item "B" (e.g.: a G17 mag into a G19) is a lot more economical than engineering, prototyping, test-manufacturing, field-testing, tweaking, manufacturing again, then tooling up to full-scale production of part "X" (see what I did there?) to go on part "B", as long as both solutions fit the parameters set out by the customer. If there's "not much difference" between the G19 and the G19X then why does the G19X exist? Why invent the 30 year-old wheel to be "not much different" but a little less versatile and economical than what already exists?
 

Matt Landfair

Matt Six Actual
Administrator
#25
As a duty gun I want a 17 sized grip. This helps in recoil control and additional capacity.

If I use a 19 with mag grip extensions I pinch my hand. I carry a g34 on duty.

A 19 with extended mags was not part of the criteria as set by the US mil.
 
#26
Interesting that you pinch your hand with a G19. I assume that this is when you change magazines? I've not had the same experience with the G19 or G26.

I normally don't wear latex gloves at work but on the rare occasions when I do I have to wear the size "XL" gloves, the biggest that we stock. For this reason I'm taken aback by the consistent complaints about the G19's grip length, none of which I'd ever heard before January of 2018. In fact, now that I think about it, the rare complaints I've heard about the G19's grip before this month, it was that it's too big.

I've never been LE, but when I worked security I too carried a G34. I had no trouble carrying it in a Safariland while seated in a vehicle but I could see how shorter people would want a shorter slide for that reason.

As for the .mil not specifically asking for extended mags, did they specifically say they did not want them? Further, has MARSOC, SEALs, or Rangers had complaints about grip length?
 

BooneGA

Moderator
Moderator
WARLORD
#27
As for the .mil not specifically asking for extended mags, did they specifically say they did not want them? Further, has MARSOC, SEALs, or Rangers had complaints about grip length?
As for the services as a whole - I don't know. My ODA had G19s, M9s, and 1911s for every guy. There were a few guys with large hands that preferred the M9 and carried it. The other SOF units are fairly new in adopting the G19 - I think we have had ours for at least 3 years. The initial issue was supplemented with a full G19 Gen 3 MOS issue for the entire group sometime last summer. It would appear that the only change was to add the MRDS mounting option. (clearly and emerging requirement that was addressed).

That said, I have pinched my strong hand palm while reloading a G19 a few times in my 14 years with the pistol. Not nearly enough for me to want something else. Plus that is easily addressed by adding a magwell (which most guys on my team did).

Rick
 

krax

Member
Network Support I
#28
Interesting that you pinch your hand with a G19. I assume that this is when you change magazines? I've not had the same experience with the G19 or G26.

As for the .mil not specifically asking for extended mags, did they specifically say they did not want them? Further, has MARSOC, SEALs, or Rangers had complaints about grip length?
I've managed to draw blood on a fast reload with a G19 using a G19 magazine because my hand got caught in between the mag and frame. An extra 1/2" makes a difference.

As to whether or not SOCOM elements have had complaints with the grip length, the answers are pretty consistent with the rest of this thread.
1) The big Army had different requirements for a sidearm than SOCOM elements did when they selected the G19. (The Army's requirements are not everyone's requirements.)
1) The G19 was selected primarily for its size to aid in concealment vs. the M9, 1911, and 226. (The shorter frame does in fact conceal better.)
2) Some of the guys issued a G19 have big hands and would have preferred a 17. Most of those guys could have carried a full-size gun concealed without any issue. (Bigger hands prefer bigger frames when it comes time to shoot the gun instead of concealing it. Bigger guys can conceal bigger guns.)

I get it. You like the G19. Me too. In fact, the next three pistols I buy will probably be G19s.

I won't try to talk you into a 19X because I'm not a gun salesman. I'm also tired of engaging in this discussion with you.
 
#29
I thought short slide/long grip was fully retarded ccw wise, until I started playing switcharoo with my m&p components. In my opinion the pistol just balanced beautifully. I’ve set my edc up this way and found the extra half inch or less of grip makes very little difference in concealment but adds more control. Worth the trade off for me.



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Joe _K

Regular Member
WARLORD
#30
The Glock 19X is a great gun for its intended role. We need to remember that it was built for a very specific purpose and user. The model available to private Citizen consumers should have an external safety in order to remain true to the original MHS submitted models.
It is not intended as a concealed carry handgun but as a duty/tactical/offensive handgun. Most people complaining about it are picking it apart for failing to live up to their expectations for a Citizen EDC handgun. It’s a bit like being upset that the Mk12 DMR isn’t a great SWAT entry SBR.


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BooneGA

Moderator
Moderator
WARLORD
#32
I’ve shot a G19X, and to me it’s a great balanced handgun! It gives me more leverage. Less mass and shorter slide reciprocating during the recoil process. Faster!!!
I find the longer slide guns (despite the more mass and longer stroke) shoot much smoother with less disturbance of the sights. The first time I shot a 34 I thought I had had a malfunction because the sights just didn't move. When compared to a 19, 19 w/ KKM comp, and 26.

I can understand it for guys who need the larger grip, but the best shooting gun I have is the 34 by a long shot.

Rick
 
#33
I find the longer slide guns (despite the more mass and longer stroke) shoot much smoother with less disturbance of the sights. The first time I shot a 34 I thought I had had a malfunction because the sights just didn't move. When compared to a 19, 19 w/ KKM comp, and 26.

I can understand it for guys who need the larger grip, but the best shooting gun I have is the 34 by a long shot.

Rick
I guess what I’m saying is, this combo of shorter slide w/full size grip is much faster too me.
My draw has gotten faster due to the short slide clearing my holster sooner and my initial purchase on the full size grip is much better.
Im normally about .1-.2 sec slower to aquire my grip with my G19. My g17, I can get a better initial firing grip due to it being slightly larger.

Recoil seems quick and snappy compared to a smooth slow push of a G34.
 
#34
I guess what I’m saying is, this combo of shorter slide w/full size grip is much faster too me.
My draw has gotten faster due to the short slide clearing my holster sooner and my initial purchase on the full size grip is much better.
Im normally about .1-.2 sec slower to aquire my grip with my G19. My g17, I can get a better initial firing grip due to it being slightly larger.

Recoil seems quick and snappy compared to a smooth slow push of a G34.
Winner!

Your experiences mirror my own.


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BooneGA

Moderator
Moderator
WARLORD
#35
Looks like its time to bust out the shot timer. Hopefully I can get my FFL to bring out an 19X this weekend - although he cant keep them on the shelves.

Rick
 
#36
I can’t remember where I heard it or read it but someone was advocating the shorter slide because of it would be faster to unholster. The shorter slide clears the holster a little faster. I wish I remembered where I heard this.
 

BooneGA

Moderator
Moderator
WARLORD
#37
I can’t remember where I heard it or read it but someone was advocating the shorter slide because of it would be faster to unholster. The shorter slide clears the holster a little faster. I wish I remembered where I heard this.
Until you put a light on it... And 99% of the users wouldnt break a 1.75 draw so is the extra saved 0.002 really a good argument?

Rick
 
#38
Until you put a light on it... And 99% of the users wouldnt break a 1.75 draw so is the extra saved 0.002 really a good argument?

Rick
This is Primary & Secondary, we don't concern ourselves with what 99% of users would do when thinking about what we can do to better ourselves.

People who are worried about the last 1/2" on their slide aren't going to put a Surefire light on their gun in the first place, unless its that mini light they came out with in 2017, so that entire comment is irrelevant.
 

BooneGA

Moderator
Moderator
WARLORD
#39
This is Primary & Secondary, we don't concern ourselves with what 99% of users would do when thinking about what we can do to better ourselves.

People who are worried about the last 1/2" on their slide aren't going to put a Surefire light on their gun in the first place, unless its that mini light they came out with in 2017, so that entire comment is irrelevant.
The original discussion was for the reasoning behind the design. Who are the people who are worried about the last 1/2" on their slide that you are referring to?

We can have a reasonable discussion or we can go to name calling. One benefits everyone else, one degrades the purpose of this forum.

I do not believe the "faster out of the holster" argument to be valid. Is anyone training with a draw stroke that would be affected by an extra 1/2" of slide length? If so, is there any data to back up that claim?

Rick