Laser Qual and Sighting for LE Agencies??

Gman183

Newbie
Hello all,

Looks like I am 3/4 the way there on getting my Agency to approve laser (IR and Visible) for our SWAT team rifles.

Two questions which was asked of me to present were 1) is there a qual for the laser and 2) what are the sighting in recommendations and is there a daily/weekly test to ensure calibration.

We are a Southern California LE Agency and because of our locale my Dept is hyper sensitive.

Can anyone help me? Share policy or proposals with similar questions answered.

I can provide my Dept email or contact info via DM.

Thanks,
Trevor
 

user12358

Regular Member
Is your team current running NODs? If so, running your day time qual under NODs would allow plenty of time to demonstrate proficiency with the laser as that is going to be your primary aiming method.

As far as your second question, every laser usually comes with a manufacturer provided constant offset zeroing target that will get you pretty well setup as far as zeroing. Telluric group also sells a very good zeroing target that is personalized for your laser, has good written instructions on the target, and has a helpful reflective center. As far as testing to ensure calibration I personally just do a quick and dirty look through the optic with the laser on to ensure the two are co-aligned, minus the constant offset, every time a pull a rifle out for use that day. It takes a few seconds and is just a part of my regular pre-flight checklist of making sure everything turns on and is in good working order.
 

shoobe01

Established
...I personally just do a quick and dirty look through the optic with the laser on to ensure the two are co-aligned, minus the constant offset, every time a pull a rifle out for use that day. It takes a few seconds and is just a part of my regular pre-flight checklist of making sure everything turns on and is in good working order.
This is one value of having dual-band (e.g. red + IR) lasers. You can be confident the IR is on target by doing a visible function check at the start of the day, then switching to whatever mode you need for the rest of the shift, etc.

I have seen folks who keep a target (for the proper range) on a safe wall in the team room so there's no second guessing, but you can aim with the RDS, and see that your laser dot is the right relative place.
 

Lane C

Rico and the Man
Staff member
Moderator
You can run a couple of options based on what you think will best suit your needs.

I know some agencies that use a converging Zero. Mostly at the 100Y mark. That way they can quickly confirm a RDO dot and the converge of the IR pointer or Vis laser and feel good about the zero confirmation.

Other teams use a parallel zero for a known placement of the MFAL on the upper, i.e., 12 o clock , etc.

For either of these you still need to know what the projectile does once gravity gets ahold of it screaming out of the barrel in flight.

Essentially either way you go boils down to training time and knowing where the impact will be versus the aiming point.

What model of NODs and MFALs are you using?
 

Oak City Tactics

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Pick your zero type ie convergent at x distance or parallel. I’d recommend parallel zeroed at 50 and confirmed at 100 and 200. You could certainly confirm farther but even 200 gets difficult for a lot of agencies due to facilities. The targets mentioned above are great. We had them mounted on a concrete wall in the warehouse just outside the office door. Aim at the designated spot on the target and Use the glint tape on the laser aiming point. You can verify by aiming the RDS at the target and if you get a sparkle from the laser you can confirm within that distance assuming no movement in your RDS. We had the ability to verify with live fire practically at any time. As for quals what does your state Firearms program say? Every state is different. In ours for instance the agency can file its own COF with Justice and Standards after approval from the head of the Agency. Your day quals shot at night may work for you. You may want to examine other aspects that specifically affect Shooting under NVG that don’t affect standard shooting. Things that might be nice to show proficiency in are shooting on the move you really see the bounce unlike with your RDS, reloads ( can’t really look at the carbine the way you normally might), transitions from NVG and laser to handgun white light, transitioning from NVG and laser to white light on the carbine without the NVG. This also helps officers understand the proper set up and adjustment of the goggles to quickly allow both without flipping them up, etc. I like to test the officers ability to manipulate the laser through its different modes by feel under nods as well. You need to know what all the positions are in the dark. This portion can be done dry prior or post live fire. Training is where we learn and develop skills, qualification are there to demonstrate a certain competence level. You know the drill. Classroom yearly laser safety and general operation procedures, care maintenance is always a good idea. Guys will need help with zeroing and how to do it just like with RDS maybe more so when it comes to parrallel zero and slaved lasers. You know the guy who gets confused which dial moves which axis of the optic? Read the manual. There are little things in there that are important. Like the DBAL needing positive load when adjusting CC. Make sure when you get them a training package comes with it from the manufacturer or whomever they contract with. Chappy came out and did ours when we bought them. Presscheck Consulting, LMS, Tap Rack, Forge etc, the usual training organizations are available. You should be able to get a 2 day package with purchase.
 

shoobe01

Established
Good points, but it was a bit of a wall of text so hard to read, Oak City Tactics. Please, a few linefeeds?

Safety as you mentioned is a good one I know and cover in my training stuff, but didn't mention here yet. Not super obvious in many ways so worth the training time, an explanation instead of just making them memorize the policy; for example, scopes magnify things including danger from lasers. Eyesafe can become unsafe if you get an IR laser through the scope.
 

Oak City Tactics

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Sorry about that I was on the phone in the hospital multitasking. Is there anything I could clarify, I’d be glad to. The biggest point was that when developing your NVG/MFAL qual, there are some things to be tested that only apply to shooting under those conditions so you may need to go beyond just shooting the day qual under NODS to document proficiency specific to the device.
 

Oak City Tactics

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Cleaned it up a bit and elaborated on a few things.


Pick your zero type ie convergent at x distance or parallel. I’d recommend parallel zeroed at 50 and confirmed at 100 and 200. You could certainly confirm farther but even 200 gets difficult for a lot of agencies due to facilities.

The targets mentioned above are great. We had them mounted on a concrete wall in the warehouse just outside the office door. Aim at the designated spot on the target and Use the glint tape on the laser aiming point. You can verify by aiming the RDS at the target and if you get a sparkle from the laser you can confirm within that distance assuming no movement in your RDS. We had the ability to verify with live fire practically at any time.

As for quals what does your state Firearms program say? Every state is different. In ours for instance the agency can file its own COF with Justice and Standards after approval from the head of the Agency. Your day quals shot at night may work for you. It may not however be a best practices.

You may want to examine other aspects that specifically affect Shooting under NVG that don’t affect standard shooting. Things that might be nice to show proficiency in are

Shooting on the move. You really see the bounce until you use the laser unlike with your RDS.

Reloads ( can’t really look at the carbine the way you normally might). There are some NVG specific reload techniques out there. Check out Telluric Group on this. We trained it with Hood drills.

Transitions from NVG and laser to handgun white light and transitioning from NVG and laser to white light on the carbine without the NVG. The NVG May go down, the Lights May come on, or the situation may change where seeing colors like clothing becomes important. You have to be able to shift instantly between methods. This also helps officers understand the proper set up and adjustment of the goggles to quickly allow using both methods without flipping them up, etc.

I like to test the officers ability to manipulate the laser through its different modes by feel under nods as well. You need to know what all the positions are in the dark. This portion can be done dry prior or post live fire.

Training is where we learn and develop skills, qualification are there to demonstrate a certain competence level. You know the drill.

Classroom yearly laser safety and general operation procedures, care maintenance is always a good idea. Guys will need help with zeroing and how to do it just like with RDS maybe more so when it comes to parrallel zero and slaved lasers. You know the guy who gets confused which dial moves which axis of the optic? That guy is going to have twice the trouble because even with a vis laser slaved to an IR he’s still going to have 4 adjustment axis because of the Illuminator adjustments. Some will always get confused.

Read the manual. There are little things in there that are important. Like the DBAL needing positive load when adjusting CC.

Make sure when you purchase them a training package comes with the invoice from the manufacturer or whomever they contract with to do their training. Chappy came out and did ours when we bought them. Presscheck Consulting, LMS, Tap Rack, Forge etc, the usual training organizations are available. You should be able to get a 2 day package with purchase. It’s an easy program to manage but you have to stay on top of it for sure.
 
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