It's today in 2021, you're starting from ground zero...and go

[pointblank4445]

Got a table top for you all:

You're starting from nothing, no guns, no training. Let's call it a 5 year plan, and here are the rules:
$2200 budget annually for all ammo, weapon systems, training. Funds can carry over but $11k for 5 years is the cap
Lets assume OE training costs $300 per day tuition, $150 per overnight.
Call pistol $600/1k, 5.56 $750/1k for ball, 308/6.5 $1250/1k for ball and $2000/1k for match
No cap on # of guns or training classes; disregard purchase of duty/defense ammo; disregard cost of belt/holster rig.
No OPA agency ammo or agency-funded training, you must account for all expenses
Current pricing structure, but I'll allow Glock Blue Label and coupon codes (like BTO where if you don't get at least 10 off, you ain't tryin')

Lay out your budget and training plan. Who are you using for training, when, and (most importantly) why are you using them as well.

 

[IronsForward]

This is interesting. I'm about 8 years into serious shooting, and I wish I had laid out a detailed plan when I began. The biggest mistake I'd correct if I could would be getting training sooner. I waited 3 years to take a basic pistol course and I definitely wasted a few thousand rounds of ammo with bad reps during that time. I could definitely compress my experiences into a 5 year plan, along with some good ole 20/20 hindsight as far as gear goes. I live 5 mins from a range that hosts training courses regularly, so travel & lodging are not concerns.

Year 1: $2,109
Buy a pistol that is big enough to learn fundamentals, well suited for concealed carry, and capable of being used in a home defense capacity. Also buy ammo and attend at least 1 training course. Plan to shoot all the ammo and supplement with lots of dry fire practice.

Glock 19.5 $559 at Brownells
Send the pistol to Agency Arms for an AOS + Holosun 507C bundle + Ameriglo Suppressor sights $550 (with 5% discount code)
1k 9mm: $600
Sage Dynamics 2 day defensive pistol/red dot course: $400


Year 2: $2,129
Purchase a solid, basic carbine, basic but solid light, and 1k ammo. Plan to shoot half the ammo (zero sights, learn bare bones basics) and save the rest. Will practice reloads and stoppage clearance at home, along with regular pistol dryfire practice.

SOLGW M4 Patrol Rifle 13.7" Midgas $1,269
--comes with FSB & rear MBUS
1k 5.56: $750
Surefire G2X Tactical $70
BCM 1" MLOK flashlight mount $40
500 rounds of 5.56 leftover

Year 3: $2,244
Upgrade some stuff, stock up on ammo. Plan to shoot half of the new ammo and save the rest.

1k 9mm $600
1k 5.56 $750
Trijicon MRO + Scalarworks LEAP mount $519
5x Magpul Gen M2 30 round PMAGS: ~$75
Surefire X300U $300
500 rounds of 9mm leftover
1k rounds of 5.56 leftover (500 year 3 + 500 from year 2)

Year 4: $1,901
Rifle Upgrades + Training Course. Also practice with remaining 9mm.

Blue Force Gear Vickers Sling + Magpul QD + Magpul QDM + Magpul QD sling attachment: $62 + 20 + 30 + 20 = $132
1k 5.56 $750
Basic Carbine Course: $600
Cloud Defensive REIN micro: $359 (they typically run a 15-20% off sale at least once per year but I'll list the full price)
3 Glock 19 magazines: ~$60

Year 5: $2,550
By the final year I'd have a solid EDC pistol and a solid HD carbine, plus a good grasp on fundamentals. I'd have a decent bit of extra money from the first 4 years, and I'd use it to buy ammo & a couple training courses. Preferably FoF, perhaps with a focus on vehicle and/or low light.

1k 9mm $600
1k 5.56 $750
2 day pistol course (vehicle defense): $600
2 day carbine course (low light/HD): $600
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I'd end up with $67 to spare, plus somewhere around 1k 5.56 ball to practice with. Knowing prices fluctuate (and rarely for the benefit of the consumer) I probably wouldn't realistically have a budget surplus. I'm also the type to buy a G18 mag or D60 along the way... However, from the perspective of a thought exercise this would give me a well-rounded base of skills to build upon, I'd have a thorough understanding of my gear, and solid equipment that would hopefully last me a long time. I'd have 6 magazines apiece for the pistol and the carbine.

I chose Cowan for pistol training because I have personal experience taking his course, and 2 days with him improved my RDS pistol shooting tremendously. For the rest of the training I kept it vague because my local range hosts a variety of trainers, and there's no way to know who's going to be available in a given year. That said, I'd be looking for a "basics" course for carbine anyway (i.e. loading, reloading, moving, basic shooting positions, offsets/holds, etc.). There's a number of good instructors who pass through and could teach those skills.

Not factoring in holster/belt/defense ammo made this much easier than it would be in real life. Idk if it's "cheating" that I planned my training courses around the idea that I'd train locally, but it certainly helps cut down on costs. I actually discovered the range thanks to P&S! At any rate, the two times I traveled to Valor Ridge for training I camped in a national park that had hot showers. I'm young and I don't need a bed in order to get a good night's rest. I think it was like $26/night plus the cost of fuel. WELL below $150/night but not an insignificant cost either.

 

[Thelonewoodsman]

This is something I've been thinking about for a while, trying to put together an intro to shooting kit so to speak. A guide for a younger me that would have avoided some costly mistakes.

Year 1:
Starting from scratch I think getting a solid fundamentals in a structured environment, something like Appleseed fits the bill and you will walk away with a rifle you know how to use.

Fundamentals of Marksmanship:
- Ruger 10/22 $279
- Tech Sights for Ruger $59
- Ruger Sling Stud Swivels $16.95
- Magpul RLS sling $19.95
- 3k rounds CCI SV $300
- Appleseed $85
- 10/22 10 rd mag $25
Total: $784.90

Fundamentals of Pistol:
- GSSF Membership $60 for 2 years (Gets you a certificate for Blue Label Glocks)
- G19 Gen 5 $400 GT dist
- 1k rounds 9mm $600
- Glock Brilliance in Basics Course $250
- GSSF Match $30 x2 = $60
Total: $1370

Year 1 Total: $2154.90

Year 2:
The only way to reasonably train within the confines of the above budget is reloading, dry fire or .22 LR training. IMO Reloading nets the biggest long term benefit given incredibly high ammo prices.

- Dillon XL 750 Essentials kit $1059.90
- Misc reloading essentials $ 200
- Reloading supplies for 9mm based on current pricing $0.40 CPR ($0.20 cents per primer puts a dent on reloading)

Results in 2350 rounds of 9mm to train with for the year, should theoretically reduce future costs of ammo.

Year 3:
- 2k rounds of 9mm at .40 CPR $800 (Savings over above $400 in ammo costs)
- G44 $360 at GT dist
- 3k rounds CCI SV $300
- 2 day Glock Operator course $400 + $150 per diem

Total $2160

Year 4:
Switching over to rifle
- XL 750 Reloading Quick Change kit $320
- Aero Precision M4E1 16" Rifle $1059.99
- Magpul MBUS Pro $179.99
- Remainder reloading supplies for .223/5.56 at $0.60 CPR (~1000/ rounds)

Total $2158.99

Year 5:
- Appleseed Known Distance Event $75
- Eotech 512 $500
-1k 9mm reloaded $400
- 1k 5.56 reloaded $600
- 3k CCI SV $300
- GSSF Match x 2 $60
- Local rifle match x 3 $60
Total $2175


While coming in under budget slightly for every section it's very hard to come up with a reasonable training plan under what I initially considered a a more reasonable budget. I don't see current ammo prices as sustainable for training and if they do become normal I would expect training events to reduce round counts significantly to compensate. With the above ammo prices I think the cost of training to a minimum proficient level is a significant barrier to a majority of the population and unsustainable.

I'm still fairly junior in my experience and welcome any and all critiques of my above training/purchase regimen.

 

[GunStun]

I'm still fairly junior in my experience and welcome any and all critiques of my above training/purchase regimen.

I think your' 5-year plan is pretty good. I personally don't know what I could do with such a small budget, but you managed to escape. I agree with your point that the ammo prices are vulnerable and it's difficult to include that info while creating a plan. And moreover, don't forget about the inflation that hits our country atm. It's easier with the cost of training because such services aren't usually that vulnerable, especially training courses for a newbie. But getting good weapons can be harder because getting a good rifle, for example, can cost you a lot. You can read info here about the rifles for a newbies, and you'll understand my point.

 

[pointblank4445]

Interesting, since posting this, 9mm and 5.56 has gone down a tick with 9 gravitating more toward the $400/1k and 5.56 600-650ish/1k, but match and larger rifle ammo for 308 and 6.5CM keeps rising.

At this point in the game, I'd probably not advise anyone new on the outside to take up long-range precision from scratch and re-work anything distance related into a better carbine optic and more consistent ball ammo (AE 75gr for example) unless they feel like $2-3 per shot.

 

[pointblank4445]

Revisiting this after some time. After using some offset ACRO P1's on some carbines and finally getting an ACRO P2, I would probably add this little bit of advice to the pile:

For someone on a budget, an ACRO (especially the P2) can serve multiple functions extremely well...more than enough to justify the slightly higher costs. For example, removing it from say an MOS glock and putting it as a primary carbine optic should the need arise and/or later serve as an offset or secondary. I can eek far more performance from an ACRO sight picture than I can say an RMR type 2...especially on a carbine.

Were I starting out with a budget in mind, I would probably lean a bit heavier on something like an ACRO P2 than say an RMR over here (especially considering the last price increase) and a Micro H/T there and opt for the ACRO (or potentially other high-performance closed emitter mRDS) as a unilateral red dot system between pistol and rifle.


Food for thought

 

[Pat Tarrant]

I'm going to take the perspective of wanting to get there the fastest with the mostest. In other words, with the allotted budget, I want to have the most capability I can get in the first year. By year two, there are too many variables with cost and availability to have more than a general roadmap planned out.

Priority 1: Pistol
Glock 19 Gen5 MOS. This is the sweet spot of a gun that can fight like a big gun, conceal like a small(er) gun, and still is probably the best performance per dollar brand. I'll add a Holosun 407C red dot using the included MOS plate (upgrade in the future, but like Queen, I want it all, and I want it now). I'll add a TLR-7A, which isn't the ideal light, but it's small enough to conceal, and big enough to be satisfactory. I'm adding a 5 pack of 15 round PMAGs and holstering up in a Tenicor AIWB rig. Now, it's gotta eat, so the cheapest case of 1000 rounds I saw on ammoseek is $222. Add in 50 rounds of 124 Gold Dot, enough to zero and have a few mags worth until more funds are available.

Glock 19: $475 (GT Distributors)
Holosun 407C: $206 (Euro Optic)
Streamlight TLR-7A: $115
5-Pack Glock PMags: $55 (BTO)
Tenicor Holster: $98 with good guy discount
1000 rounds 124gr fmj: $222 (as found on Ammoseek)
50 rounds Speer Gold Dot 124gr: $41

Pistol total: $1212

Priority 2: Shotgun
Mossberg 590 Tactical. Bare bones, simple, more effective than a pistol at home, and far cheaper than a reliable AR. Ditching the factory forend for a Magpul fored and adding a Surefire G2X with a GGG ring mount. Tossing in 500 rounds of target ammo and 40 rounds of cheap buck. That's enough to pattern and practice a bit with it. I'll get nicer ammo as money is available, but as Veruca says, "I want it NOW!"

Mossberg 590 Tactical: $320
Magpul forend: $28
GGG Ring Mount: $24
Surefire G2X: $63
500 rounds of target ammo: $162
40 rounds of Federal 00 Buck: $36

Shotgun Total: $633

Priority 3: PPE

Don't forget eyes, ears, and IFAK!
Surefire EP3 ear plugs: $15
Wiley X Saber glasses: $40
NAR Patrol Officers Kit: $45

PPE total: $100


Priority 4: Training
Okay, have guns, now travel! I'm keeping it close to cut down on hotel expenses and incidentals. Luckily the Northern Virginia branch of Green Ops is close by! Green Ops also offers a 1 day pistol class that will cut down on my expenditures and would give me plenty of ammo left over from the class to actually reinforce the lessons learned from the class.

Green Ops Defensive Pistol 1: $250


Grand total: $2195. I'll toss in a beer at happy hour to bring it to an even $2200.

Next years's roadmap:
Shotgun training (probably Green Ops again)
Upgrade red dot mounting plate
2nd pistol (probably another G19 Gen5 MOS, but maybe a 22)
More mags
More ammo
Start saving for an AR.

 

[pointblank4445]

Well, I got to help someone through this exact scenario...with a budget of $2.5k and a baseline Ruger 10-22. This has been many long conversations over several months.

Kinda in the lines of what Pat suggested, and what I've figured out in running shotguns with Fisher, the shotgun took a high priority seat. After having my guy listen to a 50-minute rundown podcast on the shotgun (basically a cliffnotes of the 1-day class), the following factors put the shotgun up on the list over an AR:
- Initial cost
- complications with state legislation
- overall cost of ammo to maintain proficiency
- ability to practice in on the family farm safely compared to having to contain rifle ammo
I did kind of have to talk him down a bit to not blow the whole budget an a full-on Vang Comp gun...

Pistol, we kinda went away from the norm. We're taking a look at a 9mm USPc. This was largely due to the USP's ability to be DA/SA but with a decent thumb safety to test the waters and easily go V9 (Single action only w/safety) or to go with an LEM variant. With regards to sights/red dots, this individual was honest with himself on maintaining and electronic red dot on a carry pistol. And when I rolled out a Landfair-esque smorgasbord of pistols, he felt (and I agree) he would be better served with a slightly better pistol as he was not thrilled with the stock Glock MOS. And for better or worse, the HK is going to pretty much be what it is save for some minor tweaks/spring swaps.

Other funds would go to upgrading the 10-22. The logic being the .22lr is there for when he wants to plink with the kids and when upgraded with an optic will serve as his varmint/utility/pest control. Last I heard he's gotten a match barrel and magpul stock for that. He still can have his fun trying for tiny groups at 50y as well. And in a pinch, it would still ruin someone's day if needed.

Ideally, we all would agree that the AR15 is a formidable tool, and this cat had one for quite a long time before selling it off. Despite what we know it to be capable of, he just never had ample opportunity to train with it as much as he could say a 12ga or .22lr.