Is there a better measure of 'combat fitness' for a tactical team than this?

#21
Minimum standards:
  1. Double bodyweight deadlift.
  2. Standing Overhead Press with 75% of bodyweight on the bar.
  3. Chin-ups-12 minimum
  4. 400 meters in 75 seconds or less.

It's from Mark Rippetoe, and he's talking about soldiers, but I'm scratching my head to come up with a better metric for a LE tactical team. (I'd argue it's a more appropriate for LE than MIL, as Rippetoe's bias against aerobic training shows in the lack of a run or ruck march.)

It's easily measured, can be trained for, rewards those with lean body mass and high relative strength, and doesn't have anything that's technique driven or requires specific practice (ie kb snatch tests).

Thoughts?
For the deadlift is it a ORM or are you going for 3 Rep? I know part of the RAW assessment for the 75th RGR (as of 2016 at least) included a 3 Rep max deadlift on a hex bar.
 
#22
Thanks for that. Very interesting.

That's a more complete assessment, and clearly a lot of thought went into it. One negative is that you need sliding scale based on weight as it favors the big guys. (Rip's standards favor the little guy, as the smaller you are the easier it is to lift a higher % of your bodyweight. But only slightly.)

It's also perhaps more metcon-ish than necessary for LE (and I herniated a disk just reading about the deadlifts for time.)
Doing weight standards by percentage is pretty standard in the strength world. Kinda hard to honestly assess someone otherwise.

The guys who say otherwise are usually big fat dudes who bench their body weight but think since it’s a number in the 250-280 range they are really strong.
 
#23
They are great strength standards. They however do not measure the ability to move for even the time of a SWAT type raid. Some sort of cardio type event, ideally in full kit, in the 20 minute range should be added.

For .mil I would add a 10 or 20k times road March.
 
#24
Doing weight standards by percentage is pretty standard in the strength world. Kinda hard to honestly assess someone otherwise.

The guys who say otherwise are usually big fat dudes who bench their body weight but think since it’s a number in the 250-280 range they are really strong.
That’s a 1rm. 3rm is easier to recover from and arguably safer though. Not sure why they use the trap bar. I assume it’s thought to be less injury producing?
 
#25
That’s a 1rm. 3rm is easier to recover from and arguably safer though. Not sure why they use the trap bar. I assume it’s thought to be less injury producing?
I wouldn’t want to put words in his mouth but from my understanding after reading some of his stuff Mark Riptoe favors maxes of the 1 rep variety and the use of normal bars for deadlift.
 
#26
I wouldn’t want to put words in his mouth but from my understanding after reading some of his stuff Mark Riptoe favors maxes of the 1 rep variety and the use of normal bars for deadlift.
I quoted the wrong posts. I was referring to Dpvaz56 when he mentioned the Ranger Regiment was using a hex bar and 3rm for their testing. Sorry for the confusion. The strength standards I've been talking about are 1 rep maxes.

For the deadlift is it a ORM or are you going for 3 Rep? I know part of the RAW assessment for the 75th RGR (as of 2016 at least) included a 3 Rep max deadlift on a hex bar.
I know the new Army PT test that made heads explode online a few months ago also had a hex bar deadlift and 3rm as well.
 

Sonofstate

Newbie
Network Support I
#27
That’s a 1rm. 3rm is easier to recover from and arguably safer though. Not sure why they use the trap bar. I assume it’s thought to be less injury producing?
Generally, the hex bar deadlift is easier to teach quickly and has a lower injury rate. With a traditional bar, the hands are in front of the shins which, depending on body type, causes the torso to lean forward more. This in and of itself is not bad if the person has strong enough spinal erectors and knows how to brace circumferentially(Squeeze all their core muscles to keep their back straight). The hex/trap bar allows the torso to sit in a more vertical position. This is usually a much easier position for a novice lifter to maintain. The tradeoff is the final movement is more akin to a squat than a conventional deadlift.

As a point of reference for the 400m time. When I was a chubby 6'1 275lb offensive guard in highschool I could run a 400 in 60-65 seconds.
 
#28
As a point of reference for the 400m time. When I was a chubby 6'1 275lb offensive guard in highschool I could run a 400 in 60-65 seconds.
Haha. I should have know that Rippetoe would have been horribly generous on the run time. That’s the one metric I wasn’t sure about.
 
#29
Really? Its been a while (long recovery from a knee injury) but I typically used to run about 1:10-1:15 400s and around 12:15-12:30 on a 2 mile. A chubby o-guard shaving a few seconds off of that would have been impressive.

Also, I feel like the chin-ups should be replaced by pull-ups.
 

Sonofstate

Newbie
Network Support I
#30
Really? Its been a while (long recovery from a knee injury) but I typically used to run about 1:10-1:15 400s and around 12:15-12:30 on a 2 mile. A chubby o-guard shaving a few seconds off of that would have been impressive..
Haha, I didn't say it wasn't good for a guard. Also since football was my primary sport I couldn't keep that pace much past 400. All of my conditioning was based on the ATP pathway so I was heavily skewed towards sprints. Back then I was killing myself to run one 8:00 mile.
 
#31
Haha, I didn't say it wasn't good for a guard. Also since football was my primary sport I couldn't keep that pace much past 400. All of my conditioning was based on the ATP pathway so I was heavily skewed towards sprints. Back then I was killing myself to run one 8:00 mile.
This is why a military or (to a lesser degree LEO) fitness test would have to have some sort of longer at east 20 minute event. Guys who can do amazing things for a minute and a half then are smoked aren’t useful if an event lasts longer.