Is the OODA loop obsolete?

MattJames

Certified Derpologist
Moderator
#1
Intentionally provocative title aside, DARC made a post regarding training and how it relate's to processing a while back.

This got me thinking-

Is the OODA loop model we are so fond of and familiar with still relevant considering how much more we know about human processing? How could it be improved? Does it need improvement?
 

Matt

Regular Member
Staff member
Network Support I
#2
I'm only speaking from personal experience and I am not a DARC guy so take this how you will. I think the concept is sound because it is how the brain works. Boyd codified it and wrapped it up neatly into a digestible package everyone can understand. We all do it subconsciously until the you get past the OO and into the DA. Once you understand the concept was always there in the first place, you can break it down into the four components O,O,D, and A and explore how to exploit them. The ultimate goal being to interrupt the adversary OODA loop or shrink your own through greater relative speed. I don't think it needs to be fucked with because if you add shit on it won't be as intuitive, simple, or fast.
 

MattJames

Certified Derpologist
Moderator
#4
Raifdnal- PAFI?

The topic came up and it got me thinking- how do we train people to exploit each, and what metrics do we use to actually produce and measure results?
 

Matt

Regular Member
Staff member
Network Support I
#8
Whatever works for you. But if you say "analyze" and "formulate" those words have different connotations for some and may conjure up ideas of being slow and deliberate -- not always what you want on the tactical level.
 

Matt

Regular Member
Staff member
Network Support I
#11
The OODA loop is a Barney-style break down of how to process what is happening and take action. It is very linear.
 

MattJames

Certified Derpologist
Moderator
#14
Orient always seemed like a poor choice, Formulate makes a lot more sense once you have gathered the necessary information. Even knuckle draggers here "formulate a plan" in enough sentences to hopefully be able to figure it out via context.
 

KUTF

Regular Member
#15
The "OODA Loop" is much more complex than the four-balloon graphic it is commonly shown as in its simplest form. Find a copy of the full diagram and you'll see how it incorporates much more information into the process... With that in mind, I do not think it is obsolete.
 

SPQR476

MAGPUL
Moderator
#16
Orient cannot be replaced by formulate. Formulate is closer to the decide step. Orient is the step in which situational training and experience pay off. Recognizing similarities to previous input stimuli helps to understand the situation, which helps us to more quickly decide on a course of action that was previously successful in dealing with similar stimuli. No need to try an reinvent OODA--those who do usually just haven't had it explained properly as is, or have had trouble explaining it to other audiences, but every time I've seen it perverted, it ends up less clear, not more, IMHO.
 
#18
I prefer Vision-Decision-Action (VDA) to OODA, but there really is no practical difference other than that one is easier to say.
 

Steve F

Sentinel Concepts
Moderator
#19
i like that, i usually have a talking point about the break down of seeing focus etc...
JLW mind if i steal that for my discussion points
 
#20
i like that, i usually have a talking point about the break down of seeing focus etc...
JLW mind if i steal that for my discussion points
Not at all. I can't take complete credit for it though. I adapted it from something I read once in describing a person's actions in a critical incident, but unfortunately I can't remember the source material.