My point was the Jared thing illustrated that very determined attackers / defenders can take a lot of rounds and remain in the fight. To me, I’d prefer a 9mm over a very short barreled .380 as my defensive weapon.
Is .380 a suitable defensive caliber?
- Thread starter Matt Landfair
- Start date
My point was the Jared thing illustrated that very determined attackers / defenders can take a lot of rounds and remain in the fight. To me, I’d prefer a 9mm over a very short barreled .380 as my defensive weapon.
AZ_Rifleman
Amateur
So why are you wanting to discuss it again and stir things up if your mind is already made up about it? Are you needing people to agree with you so you can put your mind at ease and self validate your choices?
Nothing short of a rifle would have stopped that any guy quicker, there is no golden BB diameter for handguns. It's why my home defense gun is a rifle.
But If you're looking for people to say that you're right, we're dumping our pocket 380's right now, it's not going to happen (too many here have said otherwise that they will and have worked to not support your narrative).
Low_Speed_Notper8or
Regular Member
Interesting thread.
I think .380 can be a perfectly adequate caliber for self defense, HOWEVER, alot of the small pocket guns in .380 have so so reliability and short barrels that make .380 even more anemic. In my mind its almost like they are two different calibers.
With the hornaday XTP bullet in a Walther PPK or a shield EZ or the .380 walther CCP with a longer barrel (and 100fps more velocity), your right on the edge of still having expansion with acceptable penetration. It wouldn't be great as a service pistol, but I think it would be okay as a CCW. especially in say a shield EZ that is a gun that isnt too difficult to shoot with. When you get into the really short barrel LCP Kel Tec type stuff, you lose enough velocity that either expanding ammo wont expand or will underpenetrate and ball seems to be the only choice. But given how those smaller guns are hard to shoot and especially with a more anemic round how important shot placement is without a bunch of training and regular practice I would find it an unattractive choice.
Honestly though, having listened to the snubbies modcast and having carried a pocket .380, I would rather have a snub .38. Small .380s are likely to be carried on the ankle/pocket/bug/deep cover and get a bunch of crap in what is already a soso reliability gun. In addition, while still having crap velocity, you can haver a much heavier bullet with more momentum for very good penetration or some decent terminal ballistics with +P loadings.
Something else to consider with .380 is if you carry ball, most ball ammo isnt that great quality, especially given the ammo shortage we are in which has thrown ammo quality even lower and you have an even greater issue with malfunctions. Versus with a snubbie, unless your gun gets blown up or you somehow have a squib with that short barrel you can just pull the trigger again.
Heck as a science experiment for the DIY gunprinting guys, with (very carefully measured charges, 0,1 grain steps up of powder and a chronograph), I reloaded some ammo with the cheapest wadcutter factory seconds, a lee loader kit, and nail gun blank powder and never had a single bad round or malfunction in my J frame.
I think .380 can be a perfectly adequate caliber for self defense, HOWEVER, alot of the small pocket guns in .380 have so so reliability and short barrels that make .380 even more anemic. In my mind its almost like they are two different calibers.
With the hornaday XTP bullet in a Walther PPK or a shield EZ or the .380 walther CCP with a longer barrel (and 100fps more velocity), your right on the edge of still having expansion with acceptable penetration. It wouldn't be great as a service pistol, but I think it would be okay as a CCW. especially in say a shield EZ that is a gun that isnt too difficult to shoot with. When you get into the really short barrel LCP Kel Tec type stuff, you lose enough velocity that either expanding ammo wont expand or will underpenetrate and ball seems to be the only choice. But given how those smaller guns are hard to shoot and especially with a more anemic round how important shot placement is without a bunch of training and regular practice I would find it an unattractive choice.
Honestly though, having listened to the snubbies modcast and having carried a pocket .380, I would rather have a snub .38. Small .380s are likely to be carried on the ankle/pocket/bug/deep cover and get a bunch of crap in what is already a soso reliability gun. In addition, while still having crap velocity, you can haver a much heavier bullet with more momentum for very good penetration or some decent terminal ballistics with +P loadings.
Something else to consider with .380 is if you carry ball, most ball ammo isnt that great quality, especially given the ammo shortage we are in which has thrown ammo quality even lower and you have an even greater issue with malfunctions. Versus with a snubbie, unless your gun gets blown up or you somehow have a squib with that short barrel you can just pull the trigger again.
Heck as a science experiment for the DIY gunprinting guys, with (very carefully measured charges, 0,1 grain steps up of powder and a chronograph), I reloaded some ammo with the cheapest wadcutter factory seconds, a lee loader kit, and nail gun blank powder and never had a single bad round or malfunction in my J frame.
Low_Speed_Notper8or
Regular Member
Also, I really think that Shield EZ/Berettah Cheetah size of gun really is something that would work great for female shooters. My fiance is a 5'0 female and most service pistols are difficult for her to shoot(my cz-75 just didnt work for her AT ALL), and the small subcompact 9mms can be a bit snappy for her. However, she can still operate the controls on those midsize .380s, and with the much lesser recoil she can get hits much easier and actually enjoys shooting the gun.