LegionPrime
Newbie
I'm taking it upon myself to move the FB Safe discussion here.
Tyler Phelps
June 9
What are recommended gun safes for a residence? What features are necessary? What should be avoided?
Comments
Harry Rogers Make sure it's heavy as fuck so if a couple of dudes break into your home while your gone, the two of them can't carry it out.
Something that's got a decent fire rating is good as well.
Like · Reply · June 9 at 10:26pm
Mark Toronjo Heavy is not good enough you need to bolt it down. Dudes will steal 800lbs safes by tipping them over on to a hoola hoop full of golf balls and just roll it out.
Like · Reply · 10 · June 9 at 10:28pm · Edited
Harry Rogers Hoola hoop full of golf balls?
I get the point you're trying to make, but I guess I need a demonstration
Like · Reply · June 9 at 10:31pm
Mark Toronjo The hoola hoop keeps the golf balls from rolling away. The safe lays on top of the balls and act like ball bearings and you just roll it out
Like · Reply · 4 · June 9 at 10:35pm
Harry Rogers ah, I see...
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:04pm
Joshua David Learn something new every day
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:20pm
David Stout Now I know how Mark got his safe.. Sounds like a pro!
Like · Reply · 2 · June 9 at 11:25pm
Timothy Giblin I'm so trying this next time I always used 1.5" bars to move mine and its pretty quick.
Like · Reply · 1 · June 9 at 11:52pm
Jason Hill They make strap lifts that let two men tip it sideways, set the strap, and walk with it. Basically a cargo strap with shoulder straps. You can carry a safe out of a house at your walking speed and into a Uhaul or pickup in zero time.
Like · Reply · 3 · June 10 at 12:20am
Mike Martin Good post, Im fairly ignorant of the nuances between safe types. What are the desired locking mechanisms? Is there a number of bolts per foot, do they have to have a shear feature, do bolts need to surround the perimeter? etc etc. My gut tells me safes are bought based on paint jobs and carpet/lighting. What is the real deal?
Like · Reply · 2 · June 9 at 11:03pm
Tyler Phelps This is exactly the information I'm hoping to get.
Like · Reply · June 11 at 8:17am
Drew Yersin Search the forum or on LF I seem to recall reading an awesome thread about safes. It may have been tied to meckleys deal
Like · Reply · 1 · June 9 at 11:12pm
Mark Toronjo The truth is that pretty all of the gun safes you can buy can be breached given enough tools and time. (Side note don't keep your gas powered steel saw sitting by your gun safe)
So when looking balance cost with protection. You want heavy enough gauge steel to make it really hard to cut through and make it take time and make noise, you want exposed hinges and four way bolts anti pry measures
Like · Reply · 4 · June 9 at 11:13pm · Edited
Timothy Giblin Why do you want exposed hinges?
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:53pm
Mark Toronjo Exposed hinges allow you to open the door a lot wider and could potentially make a thief waste time trying to cut them off, door isn't going anywhere if the hinges are cut off and the 12+ bolts are still in place
Like · Reply · 8 · June 9 at 11:58pm
Mark Toronjo What is your price range? That will determine a lot
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:16pm
Tyler Phelps I'm thinking somewhere between 1500-2500. It'll be protecting $50k or more in firearms, optics, NODs, money, etc. I plan to layer security as well.
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:18pm · Edited
Mark Toronjo This is probably my next safe, they have smaller ones in the Hunter line for a little less. But I like Brown safes and the hunter line is a solid choice for price versus features.
http://www.browning.com/products/gu...-collection/hunter-safes/hells-canyon-48.html
Hell's Canyon 48 Extra Wide
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:18pm
Lee Gullett Going to ask a crazy question. Has anyone done a cost benefit forsafe vs concrete poured walls for a "safe room"?
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:34pm
Mark Toronjo Browning makes a legit safe door that can be used forsafe rooms, can't remember how much the average on costs to build a buddy of mine ran the gun safe sales for.Able Ammo.and he told.me once, I do recall it being expensive
Like · Reply · 1 · June 9 at 11:37pm
Drew Yersin My FFL guy built a room under his garage 24" ceiling and 12" walls. Massive Safe door on the enters nice. Doubles as a tornado room obviously. No idea on cost. He put it in with the house. After talking with a local guy, pouring concrete walls or even cinder blocks would be pretty costly and even all that doesn't fire proof the ceiling
Like · Reply · 2 · June 9 at 11:38pm
Lee Gullett I'll talk to my dad to see what he got quoted at, wanna say only a few dollars per square foot, though it's going into a space that's already concrete on three sides so he'd only be paying for the door/one wall.
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:39pm
Timothy Giblin Depending on handiness cinder block with rebar in it and pour in concrete is surprisingly not that pricey if you do it yourself.
Like · Reply · 4 · June 9 at 11:42pm
T.Walker Peterson The door will be pricey and if you have to move...
Like · Reply · 1 · June 10 at 3:24am · Edited
Peter Ronin Gibraltdoor makes a heavy duty "safe type" door for homes and safe rooms
Like · Reply · 1 · June 10 at 10:21am · Edited
Landon Meyer One thing to think about when considering concrete is safe rooms as a firearm safe is the ability for moisture to creep in, especially if you are going to live in an area with seasonal temperature changes (i.e. not florida, socal, or hawaii). Especially if it's in a basement, you can have the concrete walls sweat and bring in moisture from the surrounding earth. There are lots of easy ways to remedy this, like silica buckets, dehumidifier of varying shapes and sizes, special insulation during construction.
Edit: it's easily taken care of, just don't overlook it entirely.
Like · Reply · 2 · June 10 at 11:16am · Edited
Mike Martin When I was shopping for one a while back one of the specs that was different across brands was the gap around the door (ability to insert a tankers bar in and pry it). Would want to know the maximum gap that is acceptable. The layered comment reminded me of one consideration, have seen some place the safe in a garage because it was the easiest "room" to move it into. Unfortunately the reverse process becomes easy as well and the safe can be quietly removed and loaded for convenient cutting elsewhere.
Like · Reply · June 10 at 6:37am
Hulbert Parsons Any options that don't weigh a metric ton? I ask because I live in an apartment and would have to move that bastard myself...upstairs...
Like · Reply · June 11 at 12:27am · Edited
Kyle Kotlarz My gun safe sits in my garage, but only contains a .22 rifle and pistol, and stuff I take away from my kids. It is literally a tool box brand, and about as secure.
Like · Reply · June 11 at 8:17am
So that's basically the thread as it stands currently minus a few deviations from the discussion.
I'm doing this because I may be buying one this fall and felt this would be a good thread to have on the forum.
Here are some links back to discussions over on Lightfighter I felt would be useful as well.
Discussion starts off with safes for apartments and branches out into insurance and securing your safe
http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/when-do-you-need-a-gun-safe
Discussion on building a walk in gun safe room with excerpt from AR 190-11 Physical Security of A, A&E
http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/help-and-advice-sought-building-a-walk-in-gun-safe
Nice big discussion of the actual construction of safes as well as UL ratings and more
http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/a-little-info-on-gun-safes
Tyler Phelps
June 9
What are recommended gun safes for a residence? What features are necessary? What should be avoided?
Comments
Harry Rogers Make sure it's heavy as fuck so if a couple of dudes break into your home while your gone, the two of them can't carry it out.
Something that's got a decent fire rating is good as well.
Like · Reply · June 9 at 10:26pm
Mark Toronjo Heavy is not good enough you need to bolt it down. Dudes will steal 800lbs safes by tipping them over on to a hoola hoop full of golf balls and just roll it out.
Like · Reply · 10 · June 9 at 10:28pm · Edited
Harry Rogers Hoola hoop full of golf balls?
I get the point you're trying to make, but I guess I need a demonstration
Like · Reply · June 9 at 10:31pm
Mark Toronjo The hoola hoop keeps the golf balls from rolling away. The safe lays on top of the balls and act like ball bearings and you just roll it out
Like · Reply · 4 · June 9 at 10:35pm
Harry Rogers ah, I see...
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:04pm
Joshua David Learn something new every day
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:20pm
David Stout Now I know how Mark got his safe.. Sounds like a pro!
Like · Reply · 2 · June 9 at 11:25pm
Timothy Giblin I'm so trying this next time I always used 1.5" bars to move mine and its pretty quick.
Like · Reply · 1 · June 9 at 11:52pm
Jason Hill They make strap lifts that let two men tip it sideways, set the strap, and walk with it. Basically a cargo strap with shoulder straps. You can carry a safe out of a house at your walking speed and into a Uhaul or pickup in zero time.
Like · Reply · 3 · June 10 at 12:20am
Mike Martin Good post, Im fairly ignorant of the nuances between safe types. What are the desired locking mechanisms? Is there a number of bolts per foot, do they have to have a shear feature, do bolts need to surround the perimeter? etc etc. My gut tells me safes are bought based on paint jobs and carpet/lighting. What is the real deal?
Like · Reply · 2 · June 9 at 11:03pm
Tyler Phelps This is exactly the information I'm hoping to get.
Like · Reply · June 11 at 8:17am
Drew Yersin Search the forum or on LF I seem to recall reading an awesome thread about safes. It may have been tied to meckleys deal
Like · Reply · 1 · June 9 at 11:12pm
Mark Toronjo The truth is that pretty all of the gun safes you can buy can be breached given enough tools and time. (Side note don't keep your gas powered steel saw sitting by your gun safe)
So when looking balance cost with protection. You want heavy enough gauge steel to make it really hard to cut through and make it take time and make noise, you want exposed hinges and four way bolts anti pry measures
Like · Reply · 4 · June 9 at 11:13pm · Edited
Timothy Giblin Why do you want exposed hinges?
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:53pm
Mark Toronjo Exposed hinges allow you to open the door a lot wider and could potentially make a thief waste time trying to cut them off, door isn't going anywhere if the hinges are cut off and the 12+ bolts are still in place
Like · Reply · 8 · June 9 at 11:58pm
Mark Toronjo What is your price range? That will determine a lot
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:16pm
Tyler Phelps I'm thinking somewhere between 1500-2500. It'll be protecting $50k or more in firearms, optics, NODs, money, etc. I plan to layer security as well.
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:18pm · Edited
Mark Toronjo This is probably my next safe, they have smaller ones in the Hunter line for a little less. But I like Brown safes and the hunter line is a solid choice for price versus features.
http://www.browning.com/products/gu...-collection/hunter-safes/hells-canyon-48.html
Hell's Canyon 48 Extra Wide
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:18pm
Lee Gullett Going to ask a crazy question. Has anyone done a cost benefit forsafe vs concrete poured walls for a "safe room"?
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:34pm
Mark Toronjo Browning makes a legit safe door that can be used forsafe rooms, can't remember how much the average on costs to build a buddy of mine ran the gun safe sales for.Able Ammo.and he told.me once, I do recall it being expensive
Like · Reply · 1 · June 9 at 11:37pm
Drew Yersin My FFL guy built a room under his garage 24" ceiling and 12" walls. Massive Safe door on the enters nice. Doubles as a tornado room obviously. No idea on cost. He put it in with the house. After talking with a local guy, pouring concrete walls or even cinder blocks would be pretty costly and even all that doesn't fire proof the ceiling
Like · Reply · 2 · June 9 at 11:38pm
Lee Gullett I'll talk to my dad to see what he got quoted at, wanna say only a few dollars per square foot, though it's going into a space that's already concrete on three sides so he'd only be paying for the door/one wall.
Like · Reply · June 9 at 11:39pm
Timothy Giblin Depending on handiness cinder block with rebar in it and pour in concrete is surprisingly not that pricey if you do it yourself.
Like · Reply · 4 · June 9 at 11:42pm
T.Walker Peterson The door will be pricey and if you have to move...
Like · Reply · 1 · June 10 at 3:24am · Edited
Peter Ronin Gibraltdoor makes a heavy duty "safe type" door for homes and safe rooms
Like · Reply · 1 · June 10 at 10:21am · Edited
Landon Meyer One thing to think about when considering concrete is safe rooms as a firearm safe is the ability for moisture to creep in, especially if you are going to live in an area with seasonal temperature changes (i.e. not florida, socal, or hawaii). Especially if it's in a basement, you can have the concrete walls sweat and bring in moisture from the surrounding earth. There are lots of easy ways to remedy this, like silica buckets, dehumidifier of varying shapes and sizes, special insulation during construction.
Edit: it's easily taken care of, just don't overlook it entirely.
Like · Reply · 2 · June 10 at 11:16am · Edited
Mike Martin When I was shopping for one a while back one of the specs that was different across brands was the gap around the door (ability to insert a tankers bar in and pry it). Would want to know the maximum gap that is acceptable. The layered comment reminded me of one consideration, have seen some place the safe in a garage because it was the easiest "room" to move it into. Unfortunately the reverse process becomes easy as well and the safe can be quietly removed and loaded for convenient cutting elsewhere.
Like · Reply · June 10 at 6:37am
Hulbert Parsons Any options that don't weigh a metric ton? I ask because I live in an apartment and would have to move that bastard myself...upstairs...
Like · Reply · June 11 at 12:27am · Edited
Kyle Kotlarz My gun safe sits in my garage, but only contains a .22 rifle and pistol, and stuff I take away from my kids. It is literally a tool box brand, and about as secure.
Like · Reply · June 11 at 8:17am
So that's basically the thread as it stands currently minus a few deviations from the discussion.
I'm doing this because I may be buying one this fall and felt this would be a good thread to have on the forum.
Here are some links back to discussions over on Lightfighter I felt would be useful as well.
Discussion starts off with safes for apartments and branches out into insurance and securing your safe
http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/when-do-you-need-a-gun-safe
Discussion on building a walk in gun safe room with excerpt from AR 190-11 Physical Security of A, A&E
http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/help-and-advice-sought-building-a-walk-in-gun-safe
Nice big discussion of the actual construction of safes as well as UL ratings and more
http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/a-little-info-on-gun-safes