Home Defense: Carbine vs Shotgun vs Pistol

I keep a 5.56 carbine handy upstairs and down.

The sad truth is, usually when I hear a strange noise it's the daily carry pistol I take for a look. Just out of laziness.
 

Bronson

Fury
The M4 FOW offers the best precision, ammunition capacity, recoil, and modularity - by far. If I have to grab one weapon system it will most likely be that.

Pistols serve a purpose as both secondary weapon systems to transition to (in the event your primary weapon system malfunctions or runs dry) as well as being a more suitable weapon system for specific actions (compressed ready positions, clearing angles where a long gun will give away your position or present a retention issue).

My shotgun serves multiple roles. My structure is brick facade and the block is largely abandoned so risk of over-penetration is a lot less. I'll take the enhanced terminal effectiveness of a shotgun for some HD purposes while acknowledging the weapon platform's negatives. It also serves as a ballistic breaching platform if I need it. I've conducted target analysis on every breach point in my structure. My shotgun's effective range with buckshot (Fed Flite Control) is 75 meters which is within my maximum distance in the structure (I have an odd living situation). If I can't kill the enemy outright, I can at least impair their combat effectiveness and mobility until I can do so (provided I can legally articulate my actions).

Edged weapons serve a purpose for weapon retention or entanglement scenarios.

To be clear - I'm not advocating singleton clearing of your structure. You need to determine your mission. Is it protecting your family? That is not my mission as I don't have one. I'm also not protecting my property - unless its my warfighting stuff. I clear my structure because my purpose on this earth is to eliminate bad guys.

I scale my Home Defense kit as needed, my level of response is based on time and assessed threat level. In many ways, my HD loadout is more comprehensive compared to my OCONUS War loadout. I don't have to ruck miles to the objective. I don't have to conduct sustained operations. I have a lot less to worry about as its a short duration mission. It's just a more complex short duration mission.

I have CS Grenade'd my structure in the past because someone was there that wasn't briefed to me prior and they got gassed and flex-cuffed. (AAR Note: Tactically Question folks prior to gassing them.)

Forecast problems and threats effectively. Ensure you have the means and materiel available to properly handle them.

An aspect I see missing in a lot of tactical training, but especially so for HD is Medical. What are you going to do if you get injured? What are you going to do if a family member gets injured? Seconds count. Have an IFAK on your person. Ensure you have the training to use it.

Communication is also important. What is your PACE Plan? What are you using to accomplish it?

I updated a concept Louis Awerbuck taught me. Back when I lived in AZ, he advocated having a gunbelt to strap on by the bed. I've adapted that to include my LBE (and PC, helmet, IFAK, commo.)
 

Dod505

Newbie
556 gun(s) primary and preferred...if I can get to it in time. M&P9c with Crimson Trace grips is on me most of the time, or in arms reach while at home. Shotguns, while effective, are obsolete, especially for home defense, due to the modularity, mag capacity, maneuverability, and under penetration characteristics, through drywall of 556 guns. Having said that, in an emergency, any firearm immediately available, will do...
 

hogarth

Member
With little kids in my house, it's difficult to keep a long gun at the ready. It also bothers me that EVERYONE seems to look at HD as something you do at 2:30 am, awakened by a crashing window, where you somehow have time to don a plate carrier, 6 mags, earpro, and your trusty M4. In my area, it's more likely to be in the daytime on my day off when my house appears unoccupied. Since I don't stroll around with a slung carbine, my primary HD gun is whatever is on me, which could be G26 or 19, an LCP, a J frame, etc. My grab gun at night is a G17 with TLR 1, and mag with Arredondo extension (23 rounds) in a small bedside safe.
 

AresGear_Jake

Stiffer Is Better
Vendor
I'm switching to a suppressed 300 BO with a 8,5" barrel. 220 grain subsonic.....that or a suppressed pistol. Not a fan of firing indoors without earpro.

How do those 220s do after a layer or two of drywall? I'm a fan of 300BO myself, but was concerned with overpenetration with the slow heavy bullets.


- Jake
 

tact

Regular Member
How do those 220s do after a layer or two of drywall? I'm a fan of 300BO myself, but was concerned with overpenetration with the slow heavy bullets.


- Jake

Sorry I'm an idiot and misspoke...I'm actually using the Lehigh 194s for HD. Granted I haven't shot it through drywall, but frang goes through drywall just the same so I'm just going to make them count. Lehigh's offerings supply unmatched expansion and transfer of that energy at only about a 950 fps. There are a bunch of vids out there if you are interested that demonstrate its effectiveness.
 

Simms65

Shenanigans!
Staff member
Administrator
If given a chance:
Primary is going to be an AR type rifle with red dot, can, loaded with barrier blind SP.

Otherwise it will be whatever pistol I have on me (usually a M&P in 9mm flavor)

I also have shotguns but don't consider them primary defense weapons.
 

DocGKR

Dr.Ballistics
Staff member
Moderator
As noted previously, there are multiple factors that will play a role in determining which weapon might be the best choice for home defense.

From a pure wound trauma standpoint on a shot against unarmored soft tissue, a close range hit from a 12 ga shotgun using buckshot will create more damage than any 5.56 mm projectile; it is for this reason that Dr. Fackler has expressed his preference for 12 ga buckshot over 5.56 mm for close range defensive use. Compared to pistol caliber weapons, virtually any shoulder fired carbine caliber weapon or 12 ga shotgun will prove superior from a wound ballistic standpoint. Keep in mind that over the past 20 years, the vast majority of the 5.56mm/.223 loads we tested have exhibited significantly less penetration than 9mm, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and 12 ga. shotgun projectiles after first penetrating through interior walls. Stray 5.56mm/.223 bullets seem to offer a reduced risk of injuring innocent bystanders and an inherent reduced risk of civil litigation in situations where bullets miss their intended target and enter or exit structures, thus 5.56mm/.223 caliber weapons may be safer to use in CQB situations, home defense scenarios, and in crowded urban environments than handgun service caliber or 12 ga. weapons. Below are the wound profiles of unobstructed shots at 3 meters, comparing several weapons that might be used for home defense:

HomecarbineWP.jpg


Note that the M1 carbine, 16” barrel AR15, 18” barrel shotgun with a “youth” stock, and 16” barrel lever action carbine are all approximately the same length and offer the equivalent ease of maneuvering, so bickering about weapon size is a somewhat moot point when comparing weapons of this type. From an ergonomic and weapon manipulation standpoint, the AR15 is far superior to the other weapons, followed by the M1 carbine, and then distantly trailed by the shotgun and lever action carbine. Likewise, the AR15 is the most modular and allows the easiest mounting of various accessories. Unfortunately, AR15’s are also usually more expensive. In addition, in some locales, AR15’s are more highly regulated and/or feared than other less “scary” looking weapons; in those areas, an AR15’s “military” appearance may prejudice some LE officers who respond to a lethal force incident, as well as the DA and jury… If living in a state with asinine legal restrictions on firearms regulations or a liberal “weapon phobic” region, a PC, plain-jane appearing shoulder fired weapon that does not scare the metaphorical sheep might be prudent…

In an indoors static defensive role against a single violent assailant who was advancing on me, a 12 ga. shotgun would be my first choice. However, if multiple criminals were assaulting me, if a precision shot was required, if the assailant was wearing body armor, in a time of domestic unrest and upheaval with potentially large crowds of hostile individuals roaming about, or in situations that would require movement outdoors, then I would far prefer a magazine fed shoulder fired weapon capable of greater range, faster reloading, and greater ammunition capacity than a shotgun. In addition, of the shoulder fired weapons commonly used for self-defense, shotguns are the most difficult to effectively employ and require the most training to properly use.

Most citizens would do well to follow the lead of LE agencies in their locale and pick similar weapons to what LE feels is prudent and necessary for defensive use against the criminals in that jurisdiction. Often times these days that is 9 mm or .40 pistols with a 15-17 round magazines and AR15's with 30 rd magazines.

Finally, there is the matter of weapon familiarity and training. In 20+ years of military and LE use, I have fired far more rounds of ammunition, had more training with, and greater experience using AR15 based rifles than any other type of shoulder fired weapon. And while I have also trained with and used other shoulder fired weapons including MP5’s, M14’s/M1A’s, shotguns, bolt guns, and the odd M1 "Garand" rifle, M1 carbine, and lever gun—baring legal restrictions, in a chaotic, stress filled situation, I would feel most comfortable and confident using an AR15 based weapon due to my previous training and experience.
 
Having a hyperactive 5 year old running loose in the house dampens my ideal defensive plan which would be an upstairs AR and a downstairs AR. I settle for an Upstairs G19 and a downstairs G19, both in rapid access safes. I currently work nights, so Noises while I sleep are a constant. We live in a fairly upscale location on a well travelled road that is across from a school, so the likelihood of a daytime armed invasion is low. If the mass unrest happened, and we could not EVAC to my parents' house in the rural, wooded, easily defendable location, long guns would be the order of the day.

I picked out a split level house where when everyone is sleeping, I can control the access to the upper level through the fatal funnel of the stairwell and the hallway. there are times that I sleep at night downstairs when I am off, and the room has the downstairs G19, and I can control all entry points to the house from one location.
 

rob_s

Member
Simple pistol with night sights and an x300. For me, the "home defense AR", is more for a known issue. Past excuses to drag it out of the safe have included dozens of cops and a helicopter or two looking for someone in the neighborhood, and post-hurricane trash packers getting a little aggressive. In both cases it just meant the gun came out of the safe and sat a little more ready than it normally would. There were no encounters, nobody got a gun pointed at them, much less shot.

When people discuss "home defense guns" it's usually wrapped up in the SHTFantasy notion of twelve masked men kicking in the front door. Personally, if I thought that was a reality, I'd move. YMMV.

The far more common use for the "home defense" or "nightstand" gun is that bump in the night. Yes, every knowledgeable person knows that you don't try to clear your house alone against intruders. Retrieve gun and family, hunker down, call the cops. We all know the drill. But you also can't call the cops every time a raccoon knocks over the garbage or every time the little Boca Bitches are running over a python in the road outside (true story). Far more often, something is happening that you have to go check on. The AC pump quit working and the drain pan is flooding. The dog got into last night's chicken bones. The ADHD 6 year old has woken up at 3 AM, thinks it's 7AM, and has the tv turned on and Star Wars blaring. Etc. any one of those things could also be a warning sign that someone else is in the house, but you can't go calling the cops every time that happens.

So, for me, it's a pistol. I can keep it hidden behind my leg or body if needed, it has a light attached if needed (I also keep a handheld next to the safe and prefer to take both, but with the idea that I'd simply drop the handheld if I need the hand free), I have a free hand to open doors, grab/smack children, dial a phone, begin to render aid, etc. if needed.
 

DocGKR

Dr.Ballistics
Staff member
Moderator
.300 BLK offers virtually the same terminal performance as 7.62x39mm, which offers virtually the same terminal effects as a low end .30-30 load. For a sub 10" AR15, it is likely the best option. Finding good quality ammo is the most difficult part of .300 BLK.
 

DocGKR

Dr.Ballistics
Staff member
Moderator
The .300 BLK 110 gr TTSX is the best current supersonic load, although it penetrates a bit deeper than ideal for LE and defensive use.

Several vendors make subsonic loads that are supposed to expand, however we have not yet tested them.

Keep in mind that projectiles used in .300 BLK loads need to be specifically designed for functioning in the correct velocity range and with the correct bullet dimensions for proper functioning--it is not ideal to load some .30 cal bullets intended for .308/.30-06/.300 WM......
 
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