Home defense .223/5.56 ammo choice?

ggammell

Established
Network Support I
#2
Read through this forum in detail. You will find your answers. Answers to questions you didn’t know you had. And questions you still can’t answer.

That being said, 16” 1/7 twist and 62 grain gold dot will do you just fine in that role.
 

Mike_IA

Regular Member
Network Support II
#3
Read through the forum.

What AR do you have? The one that you have will more than work for barricading up and strongholding a room, most likely. For patrol or work use is a different can of worms and that decision needs to be guided by a discussion on work related policies, regulations, and norms/commonalities.

Twist rate ideally 1/7 or 1/8 because they work best with common and heavier weight bullets while still working with 55grain training ammo. (One of my issued rifles is 1/9 so don’t sweat it if that’s what you have)

Ammo, that depends on what your housing situation , accuracy capability, other needs, and availability is. Generally a 60-69 grain weight bonded bullet is a safe bet but light for weight class (55 grain), or heavy 70 grain plus bullets also have a place and may work.

All that said remember it’s the Indian not the bow, and the worlds best arrow only buys you marginally better room for error. Trained capability, familiarity, and the ability to hit a precise target under stress mean more than the most ‘lete gear and goodies.
 
#5
Sorry, not trying to clog up the flow of info. I am more curious about individual choices specifically for home defense ammo use and why.
I have a 12.5 I am building up for the wife. I have a 11.5 I use now, both 1/7. I also use 62 grain gold dots. I like the 62 not only for it's availability and performance but I also use xm855 for training ammo and zero is close in both. I want to be able to train with ammo as close to my defensive ammo without making myself more poor.
For home defense the longest shot in the house is 15 yards and I live in the burbs. I don't need long range accuracy so I don't see the need for anything heavier than 62 gr.
 
#6
110 barnes 300 blackout - 7.5" barrel
Black Hills 50gr tsx - 10.5" & 11.5" SBRs
Hornady TAP SBR - 10.5" - 12.5" SBRs
7n6 - 16" & 11.5 AK74s
62 grain Gold Dot & 62 grain Fusion for 16" guns
 

Mike_IA

Regular Member
Network Support II
#8
Federal Fusion is a hunting round not a specified up and prepared defensive load. I would be wary of cross purposing ammunition without a solid backstop of testing or data.
 

Mike_IA

Regular Member
Network Support II
#10
@Sasquatch Hunter each question is a huge answer. Their have been and are studies conducted on optimized barrel length for Different purposes (CQB, ballistics, velocity optimization, long distance, etc).

Barrel twist rate is a factor of accuracy and bullet weight- engineers and balisticians make careers on that stuff and bench rest shooters spend a life time going through that.

Terminal ballistics is a whole other field, where people build careers around studying.

The easy solution is pick a round from a reputable manufacturer, that groups well in the weapons you have, and has testing data (FBI Protocol is a good one) validating that the round you have selected performs in the situations you need/expect.

A note on FBI Protocol, it is an expensive test that uses the animal gelatin it does as a validated and universal standard. The clear gelatins and other substitutes used on places like YouTube may not illustrate comparable performance. Go to reputable manufactures or testing laboratories for law enforcement. When we tested close to a dozen rounds at work through FBI Protocol barrier test and environmental testing it cost close to $500,000 which is a budget beyond most are capable of.

If you want more than the easy answers get to reading and researching.
 
#11
Federal Fusion is a hunting round not a specified up and prepared defensive load. I would be wary of cross purposing ammunition without a solid backstop of testing or data.
This has been discussed on many forums. Fusion is the same construction as Gold Dot and has been tested and recommended by Doctor Gary Roberts and Molon if barrier penetration IS an important factor.
 

Mike_IA

Regular Member
Network Support II
#12
When you call and speak with Vista they say it’s different than LE223T3 and the FBI load and other defensive designed rounds.

Part of my job description is testing and industry liaison, so I don’t know what else to say.
 

Wake27

Regular Member
#13
My understanding was that it was pretty close and still a solid performer, though not entirely identical.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#14
We are not talking about the FBI round. The FBI load uses the TBBC bullet, not a Gold Dot bullet.

In regards to Gold Dot and Fusion - Its the same projectile using the same powder. The primer and the case are different
 

Mike_IA

Regular Member
Network Support II
#15
The FBI is different than the TBBC, it is closer to the Mk318 round (the internal geometry looks similar but there are difference in how the jacket and slug are bonded, as well as QC difference)

And yes I know you are talking about the Gold Dot round versus federal fusion.

If they are so similar then why is fusion not listed as a substitute for gold dot, with any major agency? Why does the manufacturer not list it as a substitute? Do you have testing data to back up your assertions?

Bottom line: Use defensive ammunition for defense and hunting ammunition for hunting, $0.03 (or whatever the cost difference is) a round isn’t worth it because that extra cost buys you reams of data and support.
 
Last edited:
#16
The FBI is different than the TBBC, it is closer to the Mk318 round (the internal geometry looks similar but there are difference in how the jacket and slug are bonded, as well as QC difference)

And yes I know you are talking about the Gold Dot round versus federal fusion.

If they are so similar then why is fusion not listed as a substitute for gold dot, with any major agency? Why does the manufacturer not list it as a substitute? Do you have testing data to back up your assertions?

Bottom line: Use defensive ammunition for defense and hunting ammunition for hunting, $0.03 (or whatever the cost difference is) a round isn’t worth it because that extra cost buys you reams of data and support.
I think the study (Roberts or DocGr?) about adequate 5.56/.223 duty ammo listed them as basically the same. Whether it's true or not, I believe that's where it came from.