G43 discharges in Incog holster (video)

[rudukai13]

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/20...ered-pistol-discharges-negligent-or-accident/

Watch the man in the gray shirt. Report is the gun was a G43 and the holster was a G-Code Incog (AIWB). The individual is reported to be in stable condition recovering from a through-and-through to the groin.

Discuss

 

[JLL2013]

I think we need more information to form an opinion beyond A) AIWB is dumb or B)The gear/shooter failed.

 

[ScottR65]

I think we need more information to form an opinion beyond A) AIWB is dumb or B)The gear/shooter failed.

Right. Appendix carry has been and will be around a long time. I’m an example of doing it safely for 30 years. This guy nails it: https://www.trex-arms.com/why-appendix-carry/




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[Corey Barnes]

My GUESS is he had his shirt tucked into the holster and when he bent over the tug of the shirt pulled the trigger.

Side note, Don't read the derp comments on that video.

 

[rudukai13]

I certainly don't mean to imply that AIWB isn't a good carry method - One of the several holsters I've purchased for my P320 is a Trex Arms Sidecar. Simply meant to share as it's an interesting visual representation of a singular data point

 

[shoobe01]

Oh man the comments. We should all carry condition 3, For Safety. Etc.

Anyway, look real, real close at where your muzzle points during the entire draw/holster stroke for all your guns; or get someone else to watch, it's sometimes hard to see. OWB on the point of the hip often points right at you.

I never forgot this as 1-2 weeks before we went to Gunsite years ago someone managed to shoot themselves while holstering and we got an awful lot of lectures about being careful doing it.

When I carry AIWB, it is not especially pointing at me. This is one reason I use it. But also, I super duper don't holster the gun with the holster on me. So things like shirt in the holster (which sometimes seems to happen every third shooter when you are SOing folks) do not happen.

 

[rudukai13]

...But also, I super duper don't holster the gun with the holster on me. So things like shirt in the holster (which sometimes seems to happen every third shooter when you are SOing folks) do not happen.

This is one thing that came to my mind when considering beginning to carry at the appendix position. Is there any reason NOT to remove the holster from your pants when re-holstering the gun? I've spent some time thinking about it and can't think of any situation where I've already got the gun out, want to re-holster, but can't take the time/effort to take the holster off my belt before putting the gun back in

 

[ScottR65]

...But also, I super duper don't holster the gun with the holster on me. So things like shirt in the holster (which sometimes seems to happen every third shooter when you are SOing folks) do not happen.

This is one thing that came to my mind when considering beginning to carry at the appendix position. Is there any reason NOT to remove the holster from your pants when re-holstering the gun? I've spent some time thinking about it and can't think of any situation where I've already got the gun out, want to re-holster, but can't take the time/effort to take the holster off my belt before putting the gun back in

Um- range, training and competition events? I do it every weekend. Ranges around here will let you draw from the holster if you’ve taken a class from them or have other safety certifications for example from the IDPA or NRA. NRA Action Pistol matches allow A/IWB holsters. I’ve trained with Rob Pincus and other instructors under his program using appendix carry. Mike Seeklander is another. Gabe White and Spencer Keepers are National competition champs who compete using AIWB.



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[rudukai13]

Um- range, training and competition events? I do it every weekend. Ranges around here will let you draw from the holster if you’ve taken a class from them or have other safety certifications for example from the IDPA or NRA. NRA Action Pistol matches allow A/IWB holsters. I’ve trained with Rob Pincus and other instructors under his program using appendix carry. Mike Seeklander is another. Gabe White and Spencer Keepers are National competition champs who compete using AIWB.



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I'm not sure you entirely understood my question - I certainly believe in AIWB as a fantastic carry method, and nothing I say is intended to argue otherwise.

My question was regarding the hypothetical practice of removing the AIWB holster from your belt before re-holstering your pistol, then repositioning the holster and gun after you've confirmed the pistol is solidly retained and no stray items have wedged into the holster to potentially discharge the gun

 

[Joe _K]

Um- range, training and competition events? I do it every weekend. Ranges around here will let you draw from the holster if you’ve taken a class from them or have other safety certifications for example from the IDPA or NRA. NRA Action Pistol matches allow A/IWB holsters. I’ve trained with Rob Pincus and other instructors under his program using appendix carry. Mike Seeklander is another. Gabe White and Spencer Keepers are National competition champs who compete using AIWB.



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I'm not sure you entirely understood my question - I certainly believe in AIWB as a fantastic carry method, and nothing I say is intended to argue otherwise.

My question was regarding the hypothetical practice of removing the AIWB holster from your belt before re-holstering your pistol, then repositioning the holster and gun after you've confirmed the pistol is solidly retained and no stray items have wedged into the holster to potentially discharge the gun

The only issue with this practice that I can see, is that while it works when you are bolstering or re-holstering in your day-to-day life, trying to do this during a 2-3 day handgun class is going to get old really quick.

 

[shoobe01]

Competition doesn't generally allow AIWB. Not sure most classes would allow it either. Plenty of schools don't even allow Serpas. And, you don't generally re-holster loaded guns anyway.

For practice, I absolutely re-holster a loaded gun. But real, real slowly. There's no value I can discern in speed holstering, so I stop shooting, stop scanning, get my shirt out of the way, look at what I am doing, and make sure the holster is pointing parallel to my body so (while right along my legs) I don't /quite/ point the gun at me.

But, I am not worried about the speed of my draw, so I do AIWB draw practice pretty rarely. Most shooting is holsters on or just behind the point of my strong hip, in or out.

 

[PatMcG]

Holy shit there’s some real retardation here. Removing a holster to reinsert a gun is clown shoes. There’s ZERO reason for it(unless you use something like a vg2) If you are too lazy or stupid to look straight down and VISUALLY confirm a clear holster you need help. The whole idea of aiwb being dangerous is crap. It’s the position that’s the easiest to visually and manually confirm a clear holster. I do hundreds of draws a week and it’s simply a non issue.


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[rudukai13]

Holy shit there’s some real retardation here. Removing a holster to reinsert a gun is clown shoes. There’s ZERO reason for it(unless you use something like a vg2) If you are too lazy or stupid to look straight down and VISUALLY confirm a clear holster you need help. The whole idea of aiwb being dangerous is crap. It’s the position that’s the easiest to visually and manually confirm a clear holster. I do hundreds of draws a week and it’s simply a non issue.


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I don't disagree with your point, but it should be pointed out - If you watch the video, the man who gets shot DOES look down at the holster and re-inserts the gun (relatively) slowly.

Would it be your contention that he therefore must have failed to recognize something (undershirt, debris, whatever) that was obstructing the holster even though it appears he did visually supervise the process?

 

[PatMcG]

Yes. Design of holster leaves the trigger guard open below the belt line when the holster is empty.


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[Lutz501]

Is there any reason NOT to remove the holster from your pants when re-holstering the gun? I've spent some time thinking about it and can't think of any situation where I've already got the gun out, want to re-holster, but can't take the time/effort to take the holster off my belt before putting the gun back in

If you look at most of the engagements where a CCW holder uses their weapon in public it is after the bad guy has already fired on or in some other way harmed bystanders. I have always been taught and believe that when out and about weapons are never to be placed somewhere, they are either in your hand being used or back into their retention device. With those to points in mind I would say most engagements in which one were to draw their weapon to use in combat there would be casualties in need of medical aid (not to mention one should render aid to the badguy they just poked holes in.) While I 100% agree that one should take time, slow down and make sure they holster safely I can think of several scenarios where one might have to re-holster.

 

[Joe _K]

Yes. Design of holster leaves the trigger guard open below the belt line when the holster is empty.


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Can you elaborate on this? I’m pretty sure I know what you mean, but not 100%

 

[PatMcG]

This isn’t an incog but it’s the same issue. Very easy for undershirt or even lose boxers to enter below the belt line when holster is empty


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[Abuchanan]

It appears to me that he has an undershirt on underneath the gray T-shirt, I have experienced myself and had instructors mention (most recently Matt Jacques) that undershirts can creep into that holster mouth and you gotta be extra careful if you decide to rock one underneath your cover garment.... Example #1 - I was running errands one day and had been carrying my 19 AIWB all day, came home and then a little later had to go back out, holstered up, drew my 19 to check condition, went to re holster and my undershirt had bunched up and was slightly in the mouth of the holster, so knowing better, I took the holster out and redid my garment setup, holstered back up and all was well, end of story.
BUT... in this situation, It's quite possible that the undershirt creeped into the open trigger guard that Incog's have, and homeboy was just like "ehh, should be alright, fuck it."
Kudos to the woman in the video for her response.

 

[PatMcG]

You can see him kinda wiggle the pistol and hesitate like something didn’t quite feel right


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