Foreign gear
- Thread starter RedLeg
- Start date
King's_Own
Amateur
Skip anything made under the Canadian "Clothe the Soldier" program. The LBV, assault pack and ruck sack suck.
Naveronski
Newbie
The Kiwi's we were with all had Arc'teryx and Crye gear. Sure was nicer than what we're issued.
Icarus3815
Newbie
Wore Osprey for around ten years for a living, while it was a vast improvement over what we had previously its not the best, and the dimensions of the plates and soft armour (both proprietary cuts, both unavailable new/OTS) were strange, and the quality control was as you would expect from a Govt contract for GPF, good enough but not great.
I remember thinking it was pretty good at the time until i tried on a U.S Marines SPC in Helmand in 2008 and was utterly devastated by the difference.
I remember thinking it was pretty good at the time until i tried on a U.S Marines SPC in Helmand in 2008 and was utterly devastated by the difference.
V. Berlioz
Newbie
Russian and European plates have the advantage of following newer standards than our sixth revision of the 1970s-era NIJ Standard. You'll see that standards like VPAM APR 2006 account for a wide variety of post-Level IV threats like 7.62x51mm M993 (known as AP8 in Europe) and 7.62x51mm RUAG Swiss P AP. The latter is considerably more potent than the former. A VPAM-12 plate like the TenCate CX-950 IC is rated to withstand three hits of this Swiss P AP, which can defeat ordinary Level IV plates from hundreds of meters away out of a 26" barrel. Same deal with the Russian GOST 50774-95 standard - especially considering the 2014-era revision that introduced a 12.7x108mm B-32 API triple-hit rating as threat level BR6.
Nonetheless, the top-end American plates are decades ahead in terms of power-to-weight. Even a fifteen year old Ceradyne like the MH3 CQB is relatively unassailable, considering its ten-hit protection against 5.56x45mm M995 and 2-3 hit protection against .30-06 M2AP at a weight of only 4.2lb.
Nonetheless, the top-end American plates are decades ahead in terms of power-to-weight. Even a fifteen year old Ceradyne like the MH3 CQB is relatively unassailable, considering its ten-hit protection against 5.56x45mm M995 and 2-3 hit protection against .30-06 M2AP at a weight of only 4.2lb.
shoobe01
Established
Exactly the same as for domestic commercial and US issue nylon gear: varies. Widely. I just bought some SORD pouches from Australia (they have a US store) and it's always awesome, some of the UK stuff (mostly which I got while there) is great, much of the Scandinavian stuff is great but expensive, French have awesome uniforms (eBay and KeepShooting have those), etc.
Some countries have nothing that's just theirs, as they have smallish armies, and what with privatizing the everything there are no national manufacturers anymore, and no control of them either, so they merged, went away and therefore many countries have to buy from outside sources. Sometimes: US ones so they are using the same stuff you are.
Some countries restrict access to surplus mil issue gear, even just pouches or uniforms, or have stringent rules that make it hard/expensive to get. So, we don't see as much of the cool stuff cheap in surplus stores here. But, some.
Some countries have nothing that's just theirs, as they have smallish armies, and what with privatizing the everything there are no national manufacturers anymore, and no control of them either, so they merged, went away and therefore many countries have to buy from outside sources. Sometimes: US ones so they are using the same stuff you are.
Some countries restrict access to surplus mil issue gear, even just pouches or uniforms, or have stringent rules that make it hard/expensive to get. So, we don't see as much of the cool stuff cheap in surplus stores here. But, some.
shoobe01
Established
Went to edit with more details, ran out of edit window:
... Some of that is from... unknown. MilTech (and others) are apparently German designed, but often made in ??? Poland? Hungary? Dunno, but it's often cheap and very good generally. Got (among other things) a puffy warmth layer for like $23 that I have used down well below freezing, packs to nothing. I'll take it!
Avoid chicom stuff. As far as I can tell their issue gear is okay, but never sold. The surplus store cheap chinese poncho, chest pouch, etc is export-only garbage. Really bad. Even the canvas ones that seem to be old-school quality are too often new-made, and not well made.
Some countries restrict access to surplus mil issue gear, even just pouches or uniforms, or have stringent rules that make it hard/expensive to get. So, we don't see as much of the cool stuff cheap in surplus stores here. But, some. I think this may be why we get export-only goods from China, used to see India/Pakistan canvas rigs also, but for "sporting" purposes, not actual mil issue versions or surplus.
... Some of that is from... unknown. MilTech (and others) are apparently German designed, but often made in ??? Poland? Hungary? Dunno, but it's often cheap and very good generally. Got (among other things) a puffy warmth layer for like $23 that I have used down well below freezing, packs to nothing. I'll take it!
Avoid chicom stuff. As far as I can tell their issue gear is okay, but never sold. The surplus store cheap chinese poncho, chest pouch, etc is export-only garbage. Really bad. Even the canvas ones that seem to be old-school quality are too often new-made, and not well made.
Some countries restrict access to surplus mil issue gear, even just pouches or uniforms, or have stringent rules that make it hard/expensive to get. So, we don't see as much of the cool stuff cheap in surplus stores here. But, some. I think this may be why we get export-only goods from China, used to see India/Pakistan canvas rigs also, but for "sporting" purposes, not actual mil issue versions or surplus.
pointblank4445
Established
I happened across SORD years ago; impressive kit. Good value and strong as hell. Some of their stuff would be considered old hat by high-speed US standards. The pouches and stuff I have out-lasted several, well-respected big-name US kit makers.
There was a time when some foreign gear was arguably "better" than some issued US equipment. Brit patrolling kit, Norwegian rucks, Brit bashas, smocks if you're into that, and I think I saw a German recce chest rig that was pretty cool.
Now? The US, especially US SOF, have been at real war for a long time and both the military and commercial manufacturers have used the experience to develop and improve all sorts of things. I haven't seen a single foreign plate, plate carrier, helmet, NVG, rifle, optic, or uniform in the last 10 years that I thought was a better version of what's available to our military (and anyone with the funds on the civilian market).
I think we have the best stuff now because we use it for real the most. Previously, the Brits leveraged their experience in Northern Ireland and similar low-intensity conflict, to develop TTPs and material solutions that the rest of the world could use. Same thing for the Israelis (i.e. a better field dressing and a folding litter that have each become a standard).
Now? The US, especially US SOF, have been at real war for a long time and both the military and commercial manufacturers have used the experience to develop and improve all sorts of things. I haven't seen a single foreign plate, plate carrier, helmet, NVG, rifle, optic, or uniform in the last 10 years that I thought was a better version of what's available to our military (and anyone with the funds on the civilian market).
I think we have the best stuff now because we use it for real the most. Previously, the Brits leveraged their experience in Northern Ireland and similar low-intensity conflict, to develop TTPs and material solutions that the rest of the world could use. Same thing for the Israelis (i.e. a better field dressing and a folding litter that have each become a standard).
shoobe01
Established
Was trying not to get too into the approach (ultralight vs bombproof lets call it), as the old school bombproof mode is still very popular; I have avoided buying into stuff our org is getting custom made as it's heavy nylon, drain grommet sorts of stuff. I also fall on the side of lightweight / laminated gear when I can find it meets my needs, and isn't $80 / pouch!
The SORD stuff I buy is mostly unique like the LRF pouch (excellent) or AICS mag pouches (hard to find from anyone else at all) which are also so small the extra weight is low.
Diz
Regular Member
This is kinda a loaded question, because when you talk about "foreign" gear, you can get anything for legit to crap. Suffice it to say, most foreign gear, especially legacy com-bloc stuff is of a different quality than US issue gear. So sticking to just GI stuff, I'd say there is a very different design philosophy between com-bloc and western stuff in general. Much the same as weapons design, you have "goodinov" versus a set quality std. If you take this into account, then something mass-produced and designed to be disposable in the meat grinder of war, versus semi-custom gear made to last, then you can maybe look at it for what it is, rather than compare it to a much higher std, for which it was never designed.
That being said, if you are looking for foreign alternatives to US-made gear, then there is actually some good issue kit, especially from some Commonwealth countries, that is head and shoulders superior to US-issued kit. I am speaking mainly of issue "Belt kits" or "belt order" and full sized Bergens. Not to mention smocks, bashas, etc. These countries also have their custom and semi-custom makers with kit on par with our best.
But the same problem remains, in that they have their cheap knock-off stuff, the same as us. And a lot of their issue kit is crap, same as ours.
So I would say it's not a matter of whether its foreign or not; it's a matter of if it's of known quality or not.
That being said, if you are looking for foreign alternatives to US-made gear, then there is actually some good issue kit, especially from some Commonwealth countries, that is head and shoulders superior to US-issued kit. I am speaking mainly of issue "Belt kits" or "belt order" and full sized Bergens. Not to mention smocks, bashas, etc. These countries also have their custom and semi-custom makers with kit on par with our best.
But the same problem remains, in that they have their cheap knock-off stuff, the same as us. And a lot of their issue kit is crap, same as ours.
So I would say it's not a matter of whether its foreign or not; it's a matter of if it's of known quality or not.
