Flashlight ring?

#1
im making a switch from a wml to just running an independent EDCL2-T for my edc. are the light loops worth messing around with? do they make a big difference in pistol manipulation when having a light in hand? they seem like a solid idea and i can see several benefits to them, I have just never had the opportunity to play around with any. im looking at the switchback s as a possibility.
 

Wake27

Regular Member
#2
I’ve only ever used the RCS one for everyday tasks but I really like it. I’d give ever actually paired it with a gun, but I use it all of the time when I take my dogs on walks and feel like it’d be just as useful in any other situation.


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Longinvs

Member
Quantified Performance
#3
im making a switch from a wml to just running an independent EDCL2-T for my edc. are the light loops worth messing around with? do they make a big difference in pistol manipulation when having a light in hand? they seem like a solid idea and i can see several benefits to them, I have just never had the opportunity to play around with any. im looking at the switchback s as a possibility.
The Thyrm switchback is money on those lights. It makes shooting with a handheld so much more effective.
 

JeffM.

Amateur
Network Support I
#5
A couple years ago I took a low-light shooting class with Mike Pannone. He stated at the beginning of the course that the low-light material he would be teaching was based on his experience teaching Federal Air Martials and focused on ingraining the simplest and easiest to use techniques that were able to be employed with virtually any hand-held flashlight. We basically spent two days honing and getting lots of reps in the use of Harries and a modified “neck index”. Neither of those techniques benefited from the Thyrm Switchback I had installed on my P2X Fury, and it complicated/interfered somewhat with the reload processes being taught, so I ended up removing it for the rest of the class. Funny story: I put it back on the flashlight after the class, simply because it enabled me to have the light clipped to my pocket. Not too long after I went to Disneyland and was not allowed entry to the park. Security indicated that the light/ring could be used as a “fist-pack and knuckle” weapon. I removed it, threw it in the car, and have not put it back on since. I’ve become accustomed to using those techniques and I haven’t felt for a moment that not having a ring was any sort of loss. I’ve also been able to upgrade/change lights to suite my carry without having to immediately seek out a suitable new ring or figure out how to mod one to fit each and every light I might carry or have on hand.

If you believe that a light ring would benefit you, taking a class that includes material that addresses employing one, such as a class taught by Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics, who IIRC helped to develop the Switchback, would be worthwhile. Still, the KISS principals that were highlighted in the Pannone class, such as evaluating the simplicity or complexity of a technique and the ability to effectively use any flashlight not just one equipped with a singular-purpose accessory, are worth considering.
 
#6
You make very good points. I'm willing to try it out and play with it. The fact that it's only like 15 bucks makes me feel ok about tossing it if I dont feel like it makes sense for me. I plan on getting into a low light class this year. In NH my options are limited outside the sig academy (although any class I've taken there has been good) there are other good options as well tho. Sage dynamics class would be nice if he could make it up here.
 
#7
Furthermore I often question the actual practicality of the whole flip move from holding the light to syringe grip with the modified two handed grip on the pistol. Like...I highly doubt that's going to happen without a good amount of time to set yourself up for the fight. Although I suppose every situation is unique.
 

Longinvs

Member
Quantified Performance
#8
A couple years ago I took a low-light shooting class with Mike Pannone. He stated at the beginning of the course that the low-light material he would be teaching was based on his experience teaching Federal Air Martials and focused on ingraining the simplest and easiest to use techniques that were able to be employed with virtually any hand-held flashlight. We basically spent two days honing and getting lots of reps in the use of Harries and a modified “neck index”. Neither of those techniques benefited from the Thyrm Switchback I had installed on my P2X Fury, and it complicated/interfered somewhat with the reload processes being taught, so I ended up removing it for the rest of the class. Funny story: I put it back on the flashlight after the class, simply because it enabled me to have the light clipped to my pocket. Not too long after I went to Disneyland and was not allowed entry to the park. Security indicated that the light/ring could be used as a “fist-pack and knuckle” weapon. I removed it, threw it in the car, and have not put it back on since. I’ve become accustomed to using those techniques and I haven’t felt for a moment that not having a ring was any sort of loss. I’ve also been able to upgrade/change lights to suite my carry without having to immediately seek out a suitable new ring or figure out how to mod one to fit each and every light I might carry or have on hand.

If you believe that a light ring would benefit you, taking a class that includes material that addresses employing one, such as a class taught by Aaron Cowan of Sage Dynamics, who IIRC helped to develop the Switchback, would be worthwhile. Still, the KISS principals that were highlighted in the Pannone class, such as evaluating the simplicity or complexity of a technique and the ability to effectively use any flashlight not just one equipped with a singular-purpose accessory, are worth considering.
So I'm not trying to start a pissing match, but I think the experience is being misinterpreted. If you install a piece of gear, and then train like its benefits aren't there, and have to work around it because existing techniques are based of its absence, then I yes, it would be frustrating. It makes sense to me to learn the class as instructed, and I don't have 99.999% of the back ground that Noner does, but I've done a not inconsiderable number of reps working with the switchback. The big benefits it adds are in light retention, reloads are done almost the same as if I'm not holding the light, and the ability to aim the light. When the ring is being used as intended it's like using a WML which means that it goes with the gun. I like neck index as a technique, but you do end up having to work to aim two items in space independent of each other.

Furthermore I often question the actual practicality of the whole flip move from holding the light to syringe grip with the modified two handed grip on the pistol. Like...I highly doubt that's going to happen without a good amount of time to set yourself up for the fight. Although I suppose every situation is unique.
As far as flipping the light around, if you don't have time to flip the light then you don't, probably means there are very immediate matters at hand that don't require the switchback to be used any way. Like you said, they're cheap, the EDC lights are awesome lights that are great regardless of add ons, if you don't like the Thyrm then really no harm no foul.
 

JeffM.

Amateur
Network Support I
#9
So I'm not trying to start a pissing match, but I think the experience is being misinterpreted. If you install a piece of gear, and then train like its benefits aren't there, and have to work around it because existing techniques are based of its absence, then I yes, it would be frustrating. It makes sense to me to learn the class as instructed, and I don't have 99.999% of the back ground that Noner does, but I've done a not inconsiderable number of reps working with the switchback. The big benefits it adds are in light retention, reloads are done almost the same as if I'm not holding the light, and the ability to aim the light. When the ring is being used as intended it's like using a WML which means that it goes with the gun. I like neck index as a technique, but you do end up having to work to aim two items in space independent of each other.
You make good points. Not interpreted as “pissing match” at all. The point I was trying to make, in a roundabout way, was that training matters. After the class I didn’t see the benefit of the ring, and the KISS principal resonated with me. But if the benefit might be there for the OP, training that incorporates the use of a ring would be something to pursue.

Ans a slight drift re: neck index, Mr. Pannone taught it in such a way so that a consistent index was achieved and maintained so that the light would not have to be actively aimed. It’s slaved to the shooter’s head so that it naturally points where the shooter is looking/shooting, and doesn’t lead to the shooter chasing their pistol’s POA with the beam. I actually found it more consistent in that respect than using the Surefire/Cigar/two-hands-on-the-gun techniques with & without the Switchback. Granted, that was self experimentation as opposed to receiving training in those techniques, which brings us full circle back to the recommendation for training. I’m sure with enough instruction and reps one could become pretty proficient with the light ring “flip”, the FBI technique, or almost any other technique for light employment.
 
#10
I've been using the Thyrm professionally since shortly after they came out. I really like it and find it beneficial, specifically for searching and admin tasks. I find the benefits it provides in being able to search and transition to a deadly force to be great. I also like that, if needed, I can manipulate the pistol and light together much more effectively than with other techniques. Prior to the Thyrm, I was big on the Surefire technique for light use. Having said, that I've always used a WML on my pistol but really like the ability to be able to search without pointing my weapon at everything (legal justification for threat of deadly force threats being what it is).

Interesting point on the FAMS since the precursor to the Thyrm was the Surefire Combat Ring designed by Matt Graham who was, at the time, a FAM and Instructor.
 

Matt Landfair

Matt Six Actual
Staff member
Administrator
#11
I don't know why you're making your life difficult. Yes, I do not dispute that good lighting is very important when hunting. Probably every hunter who has spent some time studying night lighting devices for hunting, undoubtedly found that today there is a huge number of lighting parting on the market. They differ in several characteristics, such as brand value. To start searching for suitable lighting for night hunting, you need to start with a simple question – what is the main need for lighting? I came to the conclusion that I could do with a regular flashlight. Moreover, I found a great version of the flashlight on Amazon with excellent characteristics and I'm really excited about the purchase.
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Arete

Regular Member
#13
For about the past 15 years I've been using a DIY FL ring on 1" diameter compact flashlights (Surefire 6P, etc).

Use a 6" long zip tie, put the tail end through the teeth to make a ~1" diameter loop with a ~4" tail. Cut the tail to be about 2" long.

Use 1" wide gaffers tape to secure the zip tie to the flashlight.

The key is that the loop is adjacent the head of the light and the tail faces toward the aft end of the light.

You can then stow the light bezel up in just about any magazine pouch or FL pouch. You put your 3rd or 4th finger through the loop.

LIke I mentioned, been doing this a long time (I'm a full time LEO and trainer) and it works good for me and for our people who've tried it.

YMMV

If Matt approves I'll post a link to my YT video on it, or you can PM me for it.
 
#14
I know this is an old thread, but for anyone that stumbles across it looking for info: I've enjoyed the Thyrm Switchback. It allows me to deploy the light quicker and give me a more secure grip on the light. I haven't used the RCS ring, but imagine it would serve this purpose as well. In regards to using the flipping and pressing the button with a knuckle, I could see this being effective if you train it. It's not terribly intuitive, but again, if you rep it out enough, I could certainly see it being viable.