Fail to extract

[Bill Blowers]

FTE, to remediate this:
1. Lock, rip, rack 3X, reload with same mag OR
2. Rip, lock, look during daylight or feel during dark, speed reload with same mag OR
3. Some other variation?

Anyone ditch the mag and grab one out of the pouch? I do #2 because for me it is far faster and I can actually confirm the chamber is clear.

 

[Chuck Haggard]

Skipping the "lock" normally works, and really speeds up the process, so "Rip, work, reload" is what I teach Glock shooters, and most other folks using a double stack gun.

For guys working the problem from duty gear, and carrying two extra mags, I think dumping the mag and reloading off of the belt is the safest bet.

 

[Bill Blowers]

Chuck - when you say "work", is that a predetermined # of slide racks or do it until the FTE is cleared?

Can the magazine in the gun be the cause of an FTE? I have never seen or heard of that, but I learn new shit all the time. When you say dump it, literally toss it on the ground or stuff it somewhere?

Type of gun may cause issues with the rip first, but it seems to work very well in Glocks and M&Ps. Have you seen issues with those that weren't related to aftermarket parts like a magwell without extended base plates?

 

[Chuck Haggard]

Depends.

I like the "work" to be three full racks of the slide, although many people fuck that up by not functioning the slide vigorously. I've seen "double feeds" created by weak attempts at Tap-Rack-...

By dump I mean Rip and let go, let it hit the deck, stowing the mag takes time, which you may not have. If you do have time and cover, then sure, stow it.

 

[Bill Blowers]

Why three? If I see the case pop out on the first one, can I stop? If nothing after three, should I do four? Not being a wise ass Chuck, trying to boil this down to what makes sense for modern service pistols.

Your last sentence says if I have time stow the mag. If I have time for three racks I likely have time to stow? Or if time is the big concern, why not clear it with the fastest method that is reliable?

 

[Chuck Haggard]

I was taught three, kinda stuck with that, not much science to it, but it works for people under big time stress and given minimal time for training. If you see the brass clear one rack then carry on.

And;
Is it always light enough to see your brass leave the gun? Are you looking at the gun while you do this or keeping your radar up and scanning? Are you scanning and moving because standing still sucks in a fight? Does the brass in your gun always come out the ejection port when there is no mag in the gun, or like many pistols does it at least sometimes drop out the ejection port?

 

[Bill Blowers]

Good copy, me too, which is why I'm questioning it to some degree. A lot of stuff I learned first seems to stick, but if I think back 23 years to the dude who taught me, he fucking sucked. I wouldn't listen to that guy about anything today.

To answer the last part, I rip and cigar hold the mag. Rack and Lock in one motion, sometimes I see the case eject sometimes I take a quick glance at the chamber. If it's clear, speed the load the mag I'm holding and continue. If it's dark, I reach and touch the chamber face, if clear, speed reload. So it works in light and dark.

The way I was taught the 3X rack did NOT include a visual/tactile check. Our academy still doesn't. So you're really hoping the case extracted after 3 racks, since there is no actual confirmation. And I like the confirmation. It has been working exceedingly well, as reliable and FAR faster to make it a gun again.

The question here is to make sure I'm not missing something obvious to make me forego what I'm doing.

 

[Chuck Haggard]

Ref cigar holding the mag; Lots of the troops I have had to teach can't do that, hands are simply too small. Failing to robustly function the slide is a common cause of failing to reduce the malfunction, or in fact of making the malf worse. I'd rather they put their full grip into the effort, uncompromised by holding two things at once.

Truth be told, I think ripping the mag, running the slide once, and reloading is going to work at least 99% of the time IF the extractor is not broken. If the extractor is broken then the effort is wasted and you need to be reaching for another gun.