External Vs concealed for EMS/Fire

SFPD2010

Amateur
I recently had a conversation with our Fire Chief on wearing body armour. His stance is that he isn't going to pay for it, but he understands some people may want to and he is fine with it. So I was hoping to pick some minds here.

I'm leaning towards an external carrier, with the idea that when I'm working I can hang it up near the rig and grab it when we get a call.

Our uniform policy is pretty lax (to lax if you ask me). By that I mean our on shift guys could be wearing snything from a T-shirt lettered up with our emblem and Fire on the back to an embroidered Polo, to a button down uniform shirt, all in navy blue. I tend to wear a polo shirt, saving the t-shirt for dirty details.

So, does anyone have any experience with wearing a polo shirt with an external carrier? Can it look professional? I'm thinking one with a couple pockets vs one that looks like a uniform shirt. Any help is appreciated.
 

SFPD2010

Amateur
Sorry, I should have specified. This would be for ems calls/calls for service. I know of several occasions of firefighters being shot/shot sterile in turnout gear but I completly agree, it would be next to impossible to wear at fire calls.
 

Grayman

Established
If you guys are responding to hot scenes have you thought about asking your local PD/SO for old vests? They might be able to toss you a couple for each truck that way you can at least get a couple dudes suited up for shitty calls...

Personally though I love my mayflower LPAC and if you are self funding the effort I'd gladly steer you that way
 

K Williams

Member
SFPD, I have a slick Mayflower LPAC I keep with me in my gearbag. I can throw a brush coat or jobshirt (we wear the 3/4 zip jobshirts) 1 size larger on over it if I'm trying to be discreet. For hot scenes, I don't really care.
Our department (fire) has 3 plate carriers per engine/ladder company but they are Condor and they bought pistol rated poly plates. Our policy is that body armor is to be worn for known or potential violent calls.
 

MG6

Newbie
Look at the uniforms of some (nearby?) it is common around me to have Polo shirts with with outer carrier, Phoenix recently changed policy, to look more professional, where the outer vest now needs fake buttons so it looks like a standard old school button up but the neighboring still have the slick front that's common
 
I don't want to start a whole new thread on the same subject but I don't want to hijack this one either. I don't mean any disrespect to the op but I share the same concerns you do so maybe I could just add to this discussion. I'm somewhat familiar with how armor works from reading some of docgkr's posts. Handgun and rifle ratings, ICW or stand alone plates, soft armor, multi hit, materials, etc. I'm in EMS and I work nights in a pretty bad area where violence is pretty common and I've made the decision I want some kind of armor (pretty easy decision). I don't get issued armor so this purchase will be out of pocket. I know good quality costs more and I've already come to terms with what it might cost me (cheap compared to my life potentially). The problem is that I don't even know what I'm looking for. Should I be looking at hard armor, soft armor, both? Should it be concealable like something to wear discreetly under a uniform shirt all shift? Or something to throw on over a uniform shirt just for bad calls? I would like some professional opinions on what I should be looking for and please add a reason why. I'm going to contact the local pd like it was mentioned above just to see what info they can provide, but there's no guarantee it will be good info because misinformation and disinformation is extremely widespread and that's why Primary & Secondary was started in the first place.
 

Default.mp3

Established
I don't want to start a whole new thread on the same subject but I don't want to hijack this one either. I don't mean any disrespect to the op but I share the same concerns you do so maybe I could just add to this discussion. I'm somewhat familiar with how armor works from reading some of docgkr's posts. Handgun and rifle ratings, ICW or stand alone plates, soft armor, multi hit, materials, etc. I'm in EMS and I work nights in a pretty bad area where violence is pretty common and I've made the decision I want some kind of armor (pretty easy decision). I don't get issued armor so this purchase will be out of pocket. I know good quality costs more and I've already come to terms with what it might cost me (cheap compared to my life potentially). The problem is that I don't even know what I'm looking for. Should I be looking at hard armor, soft armor, both? Should it be concealable like something to wear discreetly under a uniform shirt all shift? Or something to throw on over a uniform shirt just for bad calls? I would like some professional opinions on what I should be looking for and please add a reason why. I'm going to contact the local pd like it was mentioned above just to see what info they can provide, but there's no guarantee it will be good info because misinformation and disinformation is extremely widespread and that's why Primary & Secondary was started in the first place.
What's your budget? Do y'all have a uniform policy? If you don't, and can go overt, how might showing up with a visible carrier look to your patient? What kind of threats do you want/need protection against?

FWIW, I could stick my STOP-BZ plates into a BFG PLATEminus and wear my issued polo over it, and look perfectly normal. On the other hand, the STOP-BZs aren't exactly cheap. There are various very thin alloy plates out there that would be relatively light, and not too expensive, but I've no idea how bad the spalling would be against handgun rounds. In my calculus, as a medical provider in a metropolitan area, rifle protection isn't a huge deal, since our policy is to stage until LE has given us the all clear, so you might be able to get away with soft armor, particularly if it's stabproof. I've seen a couple of our medics strap on soft armor before shift starts, but very few do so, since our department's jurisdiction isn't that bad for the most part.

Just some thoughts from a volley hose humping gear queer.
 

Mjfritz07

Newbie
I'm torn on blue carriers. Yes, it makes us stand out as paramedics. But it also makes us stand out.....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Dr. Cornwallis

Regular Member
My personal concern with getting shot on duty isn't the obvious ones... it's the run of the mill fire or medical call... we don't die going to domestic violence calls over overdoses, we die going to a fire call or some fake ems call where someone's just a dick and decided today is a good day to shoot some firemen.

I think given the new world we live in faced with threats not only from random ass holes but terrorists as well; municipal fire/ems services should be armed and armored.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

chrischris

Amateur
All of our fire guys have issued vests they wear when responding to a violent incident such as a shooting, stabbing, etc. I think it's a great idea.... We only allow fire and medics in the area when the scene is safe, but things can quickly get out of hand. If you are after soft armor only and want a cheap solution, you can probably talk to your PD guys about getting an expired vest or a vest someone left after they retired or moved on. Then you can pull the kevlar out to put in your carrier.
 
Top