"Essential" Glock upgrades?

Yondering

Regular Member
#41
Strange things happen in FoF, so I won't argue that. However, if you're seeing magazines accidentally dropped, it's a training issue. The same goes for an extended slide stop. If you are continually hitting the slide stop and locking the slide to the rear with a loaded magazine, it's not the gun's fault. It's your wonky grip. Another training issue.

In regards to the competition comment, if it were an issue, you would see more dropped magazines in competition.
You seem to still be thinking in square range terms.
 

David Mayeur

Regular Member
Network Support I
#42
You seem to still be thinking in square range terms.
No, I fully understand what you're getting at. I'm simply stating that it's not as much of a concern as you're making it out to be.

I've hit the factory non-extended slide stop many times. It can happen. By your logic we should remove the slide stop entirely.
 
#44
Interesting discussion... so the framing that has been given to me, with regards to skills, training, etc.... what is LIKELY to occur, and then what is MOST likely to occur.

In my world, running my guns, it is most likely that I'll have an issue working the slide stop release, or mag release. I know this, it is potentionally an issue EVERY TIME I manipulate one of those features.

Possible, but less likely, is the ninja FoF guy that is gonna' drop my mag for me, leaving me with 1 in the chamber.

So, we train, and prepare for things that are most likely, to less likely, to not likely, to almost unlikely to ever happen.

For me, the logic is simple. I need controls on my weapon(s) that allow me to every time, run the gun with certainty.

Beyond that, not jumping into the fray.

Barry
 

Yondering

Regular Member
#45
Interesting discussion... so the framing that has been given to me, with regards to skills, training, etc.... what is LIKELY to occur, and then what is MOST likely to occur.

In my world, running my guns, it is most likely that I'll have an issue working the slide stop release, or mag release. I know this, it is potentionally an issue EVERY TIME I manipulate one of those features.
I'm with you on the first line. The second part is flawed though IMO and shows a lack of realistic training. If you have trouble accessing a stock mag release, that's a training issue, and very easy to correct. Remember we don't need speed reloads for this stuff, it's not square range competition or a John Wick movie. Adding gear to correct a training issue, when that gear can cause a serious problem in a fight, is a poor solution. Extended mag releases dropping a mag are not a "ninja FOF" thing as you imply; I'm getting a strong impression that several of you guys haven't done much hand to hand stuff and are basing your statements on imagination more than practice.

If you have trouble with the mag release - I'd have to wonder why you're using it at all? It's not something you need to access during a fight, and does add potential to cause a malfunction when you need the gun to work. Keep it simple - tap/rack, no need to touch the slide release at all.
 

user12358

Regular Member
#47
If you have trouble accessing a stock mag release, that's a training issue, and very easy to correct. Remember we don't need speed reloads for this stuff, it's not square range competition or a John Wick movie. Adding gear to correct a training issue, when that gear can cause a serious problem in a fight, is a poor solution.
Hand size is not a training issue. There is a marked advantage to not having to break your firing hand grip when performing a reload and an extended magazine release allow people to accomplish that who do not have the hand size required to do so with a factory release. I'm not sure where you have come up with the idea that "we" don't need speed reloads for "this stuff" as there is a wide variety of use cases and there are certainly people that have performed slide lock reloads in gunfights.

The only time I have ever seen a reasonable mag release along the lines of a Vickers or even some of the more subdued pedal style releases were by people with a lack of understanding of the ranges of a fight, a handgun does not replace grappling skills or a fixed blade like a clinch pick. The factory mag release is still more that big enough to be released if you are applying pressure on an adversaries gun during an entangled fight and make contact to it with a hard part of the hand, either yours or the opponents. You either have to go to a Euro release or a internal box magazine or just accept that the magazine release is something that can be occasionally actuated if you fail to maintain distance or attempt to draw and employ the firearm before creating enough space.

It is also worth noting that the Gen 4+ factory releases are easier to depress when grabbing at the gun than the Vickers version because of the pronounced leading edge

If you have trouble with the mag release - I'd have to wonder why you're using it at all? It's not something you need to access during a fight, and does add potential to cause a malfunction when you need the gun to work. Keep it simple - tap/rack, no need to touch the slide release at all.
I'm going to assume that you meant to say the slide release here. Using the slide release on a reload is markedly faster than the alternatives. Slide lock does happen in fights and I personally feel better with bullets in the gun so I endeavor to reload as quick as possible. You can feel free to do whatever you please with your guns but you aren't the only person to have trained FoF and your imagined gunfight with no need to reload doesn't cover other peoples actual gunfights.
 

Wake27

Regular Member
#50
Seems to me that someone karate chopping my extended mag release is more of a John Wick movie scene than having to reload while in a fight. But what do I know, I’ve never been to Rex Kwon Do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#52
Gents. You’re either prepared or you’re not. The mag release on an AR is easier to hit in a fight than any handgun I’ve ever carried and the compulsion to hang onto that stupid thing when someone bear hugs you from behind is strong until it’s literally beaten out of you. I understand both points of view, but we need to differentiate between average CCW American, police officer, swat guy, and assaulter.
In the end it depends on what you’re doing. Everyone has different experiences and they are all valid if you’re the one who’s experienced them.
A guy bum rushing me when I’m in full kit is just going to get hurt because my mates are with me and his aggression is just a welcome excuse to apply the proper amount of force.

I’m alone in board shorts with a pps or 43 and no spare mag it will be most likely be the last thing I try to introduce into that shit show. Guns have been the answer only a few times in my life but combatives have been many times. I will say that in the many fights I’ve been in.. not once has my weapon been an issue.
 

Yondering

Regular Member
#55
We agree on that point at least.
We disagree when you imagine that I'm fantasizing because I have a different opinion or experiences than you.
Since the few minutes to edit the above expired:

I did NOT say we don't/won't need to reload in a gunfight; please don't disrespect me with straw man arguments. I AM saying we don't need extended mag releases to do it, and they are a potential liability that we don't need to have. Maybe if you have midget hands like user12358 you'd need an extended release, but for most of us, training to use a stock mag release is the way to go.
 

David Mayeur

Regular Member
Network Support I
#56
We agree on that point at least.
We disagree when you imagine that I'm fantasizing because I have a different opinion or experiences than you.
We disgree, because your opinion differs from the opinions of people that I respect. That's all.

I also don't care much as to what people do with their own firearms. The point of Primary & Secondary is to get good information out there and allow people to make an informed decision. It was never designed to ram one's opinion down someone's throat.
 
#57
It’s seems this thread may have devolved a bit. “Essential” obviously has to do with the particular user/mission. I think all of us agree that proper sights are in order. Whether or not you like or “need” extended controls and whatnot is totally personal. With what I do I find the mag release will get popped sometimes during normal activity. Stock button. I haven’t got trash can lids for hands but I can still work it just fine. “You do you boo boo” applies, the whole “it works for me” thing. Having done much more combatives training than gunfighting I’ve found that mags will sometimes hit the deck. The risk of magazines being jettisoned is always there. It’s just what are you optimizing your Glock for. Extended mag buttons are detrimental to how I do things. Just me. Getting back to the original thread, as far as my “essential” list is it’s just good sights, grip plug, couple little bits of skateboard tape and tons of carbon. Possibly a gadget as well.