Efficacy of Weight Reduction Cuts/Ports in Pistol Slides

[Grim Gunner]

What are good reasons to modify a duty/defensive pistol with slide cuts/ports, i.e. cutting windows into the sides or top of the slide? As a follow on, anyone that has such cuts on your pistol, did you notice significant positive or negative effects? This modification seems popular, and I am seeing factory offerings put to market with the cuts performed, to include the new Sig P320 VTAC variant.

According to limited general feedback from this post on the Facebook P&S group, the advantages of faster cycling and manipulation in conjunction with "tuned" ammo and spring combinations can result in a softer, flatter shooting gun, but could result in a gun less suited for the rigors of military and police or defensive applications owing to weakening of slide structural integrity and possible battering issues.

I would like to see more discussion of the topic here on the forum. Thanks in advance for your input.

Note: I am specifically referring to cuts or ports that open up the slide, not serrations for grasping.

 

[leozinho]

What are good reasons to modify a duty/defensive pistol with slide cuts/ports, i.e. cutting windows into the sides or top of the slide?

I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze. You may (and I mean may) have a perceptible decrease in recoil if you take enough weight off, but if you take enough weight off to make a difference, you are going to have to play around with the springs. Your range ammo may run but your defensive ammo doesn't, or vice versa. Or it will run when perfectly clean and lubricated but starts to sputter when it gets a bit dirty or dry, etc.

The most important quality of a duty/defensive pistol is for it to function when you want it to. Removing significant slide weight may hinder that quality for what? Slightly faster splits?

I have played around with different recoil springs in my CZ Shadow and would probably make slide cuts if they were USPSA production legal. My next fun purchase will probably be a Grand Power Xcalibur at least partly because of the slide cuts (and I have a thing for obscure SA/DA guns with good triggers.) I'm all for ekeing out the last bit of performance from my game gun, even if it means a few malfunctions at a club match (I do want it running 100% for major matches.) But I wouldn't play around with defensive pistols.

I'm not allowed to mod my work guns, but wouldn't even if I was allowed to for the reasons above.

 

[Kamp]

When cutting "windows"..it can weaken the integrity of the slide an has led to catastrophic failures


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[JHaddock07]

@Grim Gunner To answer your question directly, the one point of stock ports or slide cuts is only a benefit if you're running a ported barrel thus creating a NEED for those holes / ports / cuts in the slide. Outside of that, I can't think of a situation in which it's of major benefit on a duty / defensive pistol. I would ASSUME that the rise in factory offerings for a seemingly irrelevant addition of "non-functional" cuts is more so financially driven than performance driven. From a sales / factory's perspective, If you can increase profits by appealing to a larger consumer base on the premise of "what's popular" then why wouldn't you pursue that option.

I think @leozonho covered the bases pretty well in regards to the drawbacks of introducing ports / windows to defensive / carry pistols.

In the instance of a pistol that your life may rely upon, then the closer to stock (mechanically) the better in my opinion. For reference, I found with my fauxland special, that with the addition of the compensator I experienced various issues related to guide rod spring weight, and ammo grain weight. I've got it all dialed in now, but I didn't employ it as my carry pistol until I eliminated any inconsistencies.

If it's a competition gun, or a plinking gun, then I'd say you're only limited by your budget and willingness to deal with the potential headaches of needing to tune the gun.


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[nate89]

If you listen to the Modcast with Robert Vogel, he specifically mentions that an increase in slide weight was more beneficial for him. I can't remember the exact time he starts talking about it, but that was a very interesting discussion for me. I'll see if I can find it..

 

[TCB]

This is a very common tactic in competition guns. When you reduce the reciprocating mass of the slide you reduce muzzle flip, you also need to tune the recoil spring otherwise you get muzzle dip, you also need to run a constant load to make sure it all works right. This combined with a frame that is on the heavy side makes for a very flat shooting, fast cycling gun with soft perceived recoil. If you're able to work up a high performance hand load that work as good as commercial offerings like thoes on DOCGKR's recommend list to mate to a pistol like this for carry you might be on to something. But, hand loading that consistently and doing all the vetting and performance testing seems like A LOT of work...

A teammate just had a 1911 built with the modifications you're talking about for SS division in USPSA by a very good smith...it shoots amazing. It was also A LOT of $...I have a custom 2011 done like this as well, it shoots amazingly. It was also A LOT of $...

I carry plastic guns both on & off duty they both run great and shoot pretty good.

When I go to a pistol match I know I'm gonna shoot a lot and bring high performance pistols. When I go to work or if I'm off duty and know I'm going to walk into a gunfight I carry a rifle, and a pistol that runs great and shoots pretty good.

 

[Arete]

Cutting the slide can weaken it in ways you wouldn't necessarily anticipate. For example, Colt had to change the front cocking serrations for the USMC M45 due to slides breaking in the prototypes, which was caused by how the cuts for the serrations were done.

Lightening cuts have been used in USPSA and Steel Challenge guns for a very long time. Occasionally a slide will crack or break, due to the reduced strength, or due to stresses created by the way the cuts have been done. I know several folks who this has happened to. And then it's back to the gunsmith for months and months waiting to get fixed.

Also remember that these folks do a lot of experimentation with loads, springs, firing pin stop profiles, compensators, barrel types, magazines (mag tuning is a black art unto itself) etc. to get a gun that actually works (or mostly works, most of the time). If you want to see very expensive guns that don't work all that well, go watch a USPSA match. There are *far* more reliability problems in Open and Limited divisions than in Production.

But lightening cuts look "cool".

And don't forget, the more machining to the gun, the higher the pricetag.

Anyway, I would avoid them on a defensive pistol.

Good grip technique will do more, far, far more, to optimize your shooting than lightening cuts could ever possibly do.

I say the above having owned 2 Open Division raceguns.

 

[Grim Gunner]

@nate89 : I listened to that exact podcast and recall Robert mentioning that. That comment was a significant factor in my posting the question to the Facebook group, and now here.

@Jordan Haddock : Agree 100% that gun makers are profit driven (rightly), and that is likely contributing to seeing more of these cuts on factory offerings. Same reason we saw so much zombie bullshit on the market a few years back. That's fine, if it helps a good company keep the lights on, even if it pains me to see them churning out poseur bullshit, lol. Back to the issue of the cuts themselves, I myself was pretty excited about the P320 VTAC, that is until I found out it featured two teardrop-shaped cuts on either side of the slide. I am not one of these guys that likes to be the so-called beta-tester; sure function in a proven design is more important to me than bleeding-edge performance or upgrades. Maybe ultimately, a few conservative cuts make little or no difference either to longevity or reliability. If that is the case, I'll be the first guy in line. I'm just not going to be the guy that finds out first, though.

Thanks for all the input guys. Keep the discussion going.