does our choice in apparel give away our advantage?

CodyY

Newbie
Network Support II
#41
all this being said I feel like this is kinda skipping on the line of our no greyman concept rule.
I've dug around and cant find where this is posted? Mostly just want to not break the rules

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
#42
Gray man. Always.

Be the most peaceable, agreeable, and average guy around. Don’t run your mouth. Be easily overlooked. Don’t let anything say “I’ve got a gun”

Also be the most deadly guy in the room.
 

Sunshine_Shooter

Regular Member
Network Support I
#44
I absolutely agree. I can spot people all day who are likely carrying or at least own firearms; it’s typically written all over them whether it be their clothing choices and their vehicles or both.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I can rarely 'make' a fellow CCW-er in public, but when I can it's because they're wearing cargo pants. If you wear cargos in public, pair it with a Star wars/video game/generic nerd t-shirt so it looks like you are carrying a Nintendo Switch instead of a gun.
 
#45
I absolutely agree. I can spot people all day who are likely carrying or at least own firearms; it’s typically written all over them whether it be their clothing choices and their vehicles or both.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I can rarely 'make' a fellow CCW-er in public, but when I can it's because they're wearing cargo pants. If you wear cargos in public, pair it with a Star wars/video game/generic nerd t-shirt so it looks like you are carrying a Nintendo Switch instead of a gun.
I can’t usually find the gun but when I see someone wearing cargo pants or hiking pants, hiking boots and an American flag hat or some freedom/guns/vet related hat/shirt etc I think gun. No normal person dresses like that. Also when they roll up in a lifted jeep or truck covered in thin red or blue like, Nine line, industry and moaning labia stickers that’s a dead giveaway.

I’ve never had issues dressing normal and carrying a gun... and if people take 17 seconds to shop around they’ll see that normal looking, even stylish clothing can be found that’s comfortable, functional and seasonally appropriate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#46
Short answer to the original question, I believe so.

I can’t usually find the gun but when I see someone wearing cargo pants or hiking pants, hiking boots and an American flag hat or some freedom/guns/vet related hat/shirt etc I think gun. No normal person dresses like that. Also when they roll up in a lifted jeep or truck covered in thin red or blue like, Nine line, industry and moaning labia stickers that’s a dead giveaway.

I’ve never had issues dressing normal and carrying a gun... and if people take 17 seconds to shop around they’ll see that normal looking, even stylish clothing can be found that’s comfortable, functional and seasonally appropriate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'll admit to being guilty of this one early on. Back in my younger/more slovenly days I pretty much lived in cargo pants, polo shirts, and boots of some sort. In the year I lived at the condo I lived in right after college, I was asked 2-3 times if I was a police officer. I was just an overweight, just out of school engineer who wore cargo pants, ball caps, and dark polo shirts constantly.

Fast forward a few years and lot more common sense, I'm 70# lighter and have a wife that wants me to have a little fashion sense and, funny enough, nobody asks that question anymore. Much like you said, it doesn't take too much to dress to match your environment and still carry. I do see a Phlster Flex in my future to help carry with a tucked in shirt.

Car wise, I've never had too many issues with my "vehicle" making me, just a plain jane old person's Crown Victoria (which was a pretty common "viejo" car in Florida) and, now, a silver Explorer Limited which is probably in the top 5 of Soccer Mom mobiles down here (sidebar: my current record is 4 silver 2011+ Explorers at a stoplight, can't get much grayer than that without getting a black Tahoe down here).
 
#47
I can’t usually find the gun but when I see someone wearing cargo pants or hiking pants, hiking boots and an American flag hat or some freedom/guns/vet related hat/shirt etc I think gun. No normal person dresses like that. Also when they roll up in a lifted jeep or truck covered in thin red or blue like, Nine line, industry and moaning labia stickers that’s a dead giveaway.

I’ve never had issues dressing normal and carrying a gun... and if people take 17 seconds to shop around they’ll see that normal looking, even stylish clothing can be found that’s comfortable, functional and seasonally appropriate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"No normal person dresses like that."
Not that anyone in Northern Nevada is "Normal" but that's pretty standard here.
 

CodyY

Newbie
Network Support II
#48
I can’t usually find the gun but when I see someone wearing cargo pants or hiking pants, hiking boots and an American flag hat or some freedom/guns/vet related hat/shirt etc I think gun. No normal person dresses like that. Also when they roll up in a lifted jeep or truck covered in thin red or blue like, Nine line, industry and moaning labia stickers that’s a dead giveaway.

I’ve never had issues dressing normal and carrying a gun... and if people take 17 seconds to shop around they’ll see that normal looking, even stylish clothing can be found that’s comfortable, functional and seasonally appropriate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"No normal person dresses like that."
Not that anyone in Northern Nevada is "Normal" but that's pretty standard here.
Yup, outside DFW that's pretty normal. But a great portion of the population is packing anyways.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
#50
So here's a question, just out of curiosity. If we have determined that how you act (body language, speaking, the such) has the same amount, if not more "give away potential" than our clothing. So at this point, what are our expected consequences here as a cop, CCW guy, regular young prior military cat, or whatever in the situation we are identified by whoever for being a probable weapons carrier? From that, what are our priorities for who we are dressing for? Ourselves, wives/girlfriends, other dudes, criminals, employers, potential employers? I understand that open carry quickly takes away our advantage of surprise, and possibly our clothing/body language does the same. I'm just trying to figure out how much what matters and for what reason it matters and how situationally/mission dependent is it and to what degree?
 
#51
When my radar is pinged by someone I usually look first at haircut, then waistband, then ankle and then entire picture (clothing, logos, etc).

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
 

ggammell

Regular Member
Network Support I
#53
Don't wear untucked short-sleeved plaid shirts... dead give away and one of my favorite observations at any NTOA conference.
I would suggest that going to a tactical conference and playing the “spot the armed guy” is like shooting fish in a barrel. Go do that at a car show or electronics show. All of the sudden the number “guys in untucked shorter sleeve plaid shirts” that you’re sure are carrying goes way way down.
 
#54
I would suggest that going to a tactical conference and playing the “spot the armed guy” is like shooting fish in a barrel. Go do that at a car show or electronics show. All of the sudden the number “guys in untucked shorter sleeve plaid shirts” that you’re sure are carrying goes way way down.
Of course.

My point was more along the lines of probability of being armed based on clothing and our habit of often times falling into a statistically significant pattern (clothing type).

The untucked SS plaid shirt at the NTOA conference would be like finding a specific needle in a stack of needles. The same appearance somewhere else can be like finding the needle in a stack of pencils if that makes sense (that guy is more likely armed than these other guys).

As mentioned, I think a lot depends on where you live. Untucked SS plaid shirts ping the radar around here.
 

user12358

Regular Member
#55
People are getting way too wrapped around the axle here about what specific pieces of clothing are tells and not seeing the forest through the trees. There is no magical set of clothes that we could drop off to every grey man and have them go unnoticed. It is way easier to tell based off of actions and mannerisms than a set of clothing who could be dangerous. Some people would crucify me for wearing my favorite Arbor Arms hoodie because that is mildly gun related but when it gets borrowed by my 5 foot tall blonde girlfriend is it still a dead giveaway? The answer is no, because she absolutely has firearms or combatives experience.

The difference is that I am a 6'+, military age male, who is visibly alert to their surroundings, and moving with a purpose. The hoodie is just a tiny breadcrumb on top of that. The most skilled practitioners of field craft I have ever witnessed could change the way they moved to virtually eliminate their preattack, follow, or observation indicators, it wasn't just how well they could rock man jammies or whatever native garb was appropriate for that area and occasion. Going unnoticed is a lot more than just scratching the Glock sticker off the back window of your truck and burning your 5.11s.
 
#56
^^^ Agree wholeheartedly... admittedly, my first comment was a lame attempt at humor.

The way we carry ourselves is by a long shot the biggest “tell”. I enjoy the shocked look on people’s faces when they eventually find out what I do for a living.
 

David Mayeur

Regular Member
#57
To answer the original question, yes, it absolutely does matter.

Attending a local event, I noticed a guy wearing a BRCC hat and shirt. He and his friends were sitting roughly 10 feet from my group. I took this photo to prove a point to some folks. If it weren't for his choice of apparel, I would not have noticed him when he bent over and exposed his little subcompact in a red holster with a FOMI clip on his strong side behind the hip.

Varg Freeborn and Jon Hauptman's podcast about concealment extending beyond clothing choices is a good listen.

 
#58
I buy a big ol pack of white v-neck tee shirts and wear them till they rot off. that being said im guilty of owning a few firearms related tees as well and maybe a hat or two. ill wear them once in a while and not worry about it, living in a rural area of NH its absolutely commonplace. ive been kind of wanting a P&S hoodie as well and ill be damned if i wont sport that shit on the reg. in an endless sea of realtree and bone collector walmart special i dont think twice about throwing on a bcm hat.
 
#59
I posted this on the bookofface in the open carry thread but I thought it relevant here also.

" I didn't see if mentioned but you can't/shouldn't have this discussion without talking about factors like the victim selection process. You can be wearing a LAV 1911 on a Ares belt in some RCS kydex, Mountain Hardwear pants and Solomon's but if you look like a victim, you will be a victim. How bad guys perceive their targets has a big part in whom becomes victims. If you project confidence, awareness..lethality for lack of a better term, they will pick someone else. Regardless of if you are open carrying or not. Just my opinion based on my experiences."
exhibit body language that lets people know you are confident and capable. to me this means being aware of your surroundings, good posture, good eye contact, speaking well and being polite. I believe this lets people know you have your shit together and they tend to take you more seriously. look at a vast majority of people and it would seem they have nothing but static white noise endlessly looping in their brains. looking like you think actual thoughts and actively engaging with your environment goes a long way.
 

user12358

Regular Member
#60
bent over and exposed his little subcompact in a red holster with a FOMI clip on his strong side behind the hip.
So I definitely think that there is something to be said about not wearing a walking billboard screaming that you like guns but that is a far cry from avoiding certain types of benign outfits. Also, I have no clue why people get concealment items that are bright colors but I think it is something about the whole making it a "lifestyle" that makes them want to bedazzle their carry rig and pimp their carry Glock. His choice of apparel gave him away to you as someone to check on but you didn't know for sure until you caught a flash of a gun. The reality is most people don't notice anything going on around them, even to the point of missing open carry, and you knew what you were looking for when he started moving versus most people not knowing the pitfall moments of concealment like bending over.

But even with you seeing he had a gun, it brings up the question, so what? What advantage did he give away? Was he in any way compromised or did he just finish his hot dog, hang out with this friends, and go home? I feel like people overthink what is going to happen to them when they got printing or when they get caught by someone printing. If you are at Publix getting grocery's you are completely within your rights to have that firearms provided proper permitting and various infringements on a state by state basis and most people that are looking for a target of opportunity would pass on you if they knew for sure that you had a gun on you because why make it harder on themselves.

I have spent a good amount of time in NPEs and the vast majority of the time I was carrying a firearm. There were serious consequences to being spotted carrying but I found that the biggest thing was just not getting marked as an outsider because very few people can notice an ankle rig with a small J-frame or Glock 42 under pants and with just a modicum of foresight and avoid any extra stupid movement a fullsize pistol can disappear in a AIWB rig. In my experience, not being marked as an outsider has more to do with language skills and customs than anything else which you already have for your home area. The other big component was moving with less of a purpose if that makes sense but that is when trying explicitly to avoid detection because of the penalties for being identified as having gun which aren't there at home.

I guess my real question is what information am I worried about giving away and who is looking for it when you are a legally carrying citizen? If we want to have a discussion about carrying in NPEs and techniques for staying under the radar that is fine but 95% of that isn't clothing, it is how you carry yourself. I have found no issues at home by just being an assertive and confident, yet polite member of society, regardless of whether or not I have a "Strandhogg" T-shirt on or am wearing a Gray Guns hat.