Diagnosis Please

[JHaddock07]

Once again @Jordan Haddock I appreciate your help. An average 97 on timed B8 at 25 is pretty damn good IMO.

I am shooting factory rounds. Now, they are target rounds, nothing special, 115 gr round nose. I do reload and I do shoot reloads but not when I'm sighting in or trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong.

Not a problem. And thank you, but to be fair, I average 200+ rounds a week, plus whatever I shoot with clients. That being said, I would be a liar if I tried to say that I don't still suffer from "flinching" on occasion.

Reloads are a great option, I simply failed to realize that the projectiles I was using are a sister company of Freedom Munitions. Had I known that, I would have found a different manufacturing source for the projectiles. Not to deviate too much further from the topic, but I would recommend looking into getting your training ammo as close to your carry ammo as possible regarding grain weight and velocities. You'll also find that if you're running 124-147 gr. rounds with the compensator, the recoil characteristics drastically improve (especially with 147 gr.) as you up the weight.

Are you prepping the trigger before your shot? What I mean is, are you bring the slack out of the trigger until you're right up against the "wall" or focusing on the trigger reset with multiple shot strings of fire? Look around YouTube for cadence drills, that will help you quite a bit (at least it did for me).

Your grouping isn't bad overall. You have to remember that if you're able to stack rounds in the 9 ring under synthetic stress at 15 yards, you're doing a great job in the grand scheme of things and should be able to only improve as you work through fine tuning your shot processes. Classes, classes, classes. If you get the opportunity take professionally instructed classes, especially from the P&S vetted instructors you'll be amazed at what you may learn even if it's a relatively "basic" pistol course.


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[Freedom Forged]

Not a problem. And thank you, but to be fair, I average 200+ rounds a week, plus whatever I shoot with clients. That being said, I would be a liar if I tried to say that I don't still suffer from "flinching" on occasion.

Reloads are a great option, I simply failed to realize that the projectiles I was using are a sister company of Freedom Munitions. Had I known that, I would have found a different manufacturing source for the projectiles. Not to deviate too much further from the topic, but I would recommend looking into getting your training ammo as close to your carry ammo as possible regarding grain weight and velocities. You'll also find that if you're running 124-147 gr. rounds with the compensator, the recoil characteristics drastically improve (especially with 147 gr.) as you up the weight.

Are you prepping the trigger before your shot? What I mean is, are you bring the slack out of the trigger until you're right up against the "wall" or focusing on the trigger reset with multiple shot strings of fire? Look around YouTube for cadence drills, that will help you quite a bit (at least it did for me).

Your grouping isn't bad overall. You have to remember that if you're able to stack rounds in the 9 ring under synthetic stress at 15 yards, you're doing a great job in the grand scheme of things and should be able to only improve as you work through fine tuning your shot processes. Classes, classes, classes. If you get the opportunity take professionally instructed classes, especially from the P&S vetted instructors you'll be amazed at what you may learn even if it's a relatively "basic" pistol course.


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Yes I do prep the trigger, especially when focusing on accurate shots past 7yds. I don't pin the trigger and hold it then listen for the reset. In looking at some video I took myself on a faster string I am subconsciously resetting and prepping the trigger as soon as possible after recoil. Hope this makes sense....

 

[chrischris]

I think you are starting to become aware of your issues. Keep working hard and you will only get better. Think of it like working out at the gym... results won't come overnight.

 

[Fatboy]

Looks like decent shooting for slow fire. The group is good, I'm guessing you had a few fliers (the ones to the lower left, which show a slight flinch.)

As far as stopping the flinch, other than dry fire and snap caps in the mags, my next suggestion is to continue with the trigger prep and holding the reset. Once the sights drop back on target, then release the trigger only far enough to reset the striker and fire again. Focus only on that, and do it slow enough so that you will see the muzzle "dip" when you're about to break the shot. As a side benefit, you'll notice your groups tightening as well since the focus will be on fundamentals.

 

[Freedom Forged]

Vid showing a mag with 3 dummies randomly loaded. Not smooth.....

Target pic corresponds with vid.

 

[JHaddock07]

For some reason I thought you were running a comp. on your gun?

Preface: I may be stepping outside of my lane on this one but...

A major issue I see, is that you're adjusting your grip every time a live round goes off. It may seem insignificant but it will effect you shot to shot.

Have you tried shifting your support hand further back so more contact is being made between the meat of your palms (the area of the hand tracing from the base of the thumb to your wrist)? That should help resolve some of the traction issues unless you've just got some monstrous meat hooks on you and that's not possible.

Also, try to make sure that you're exerting pressure from your pinky and ring fingers. That will help with wrist lockout and by proxy, it will limit the propensity to tense up I.E. "flinch" before the shot breaks.

Aside from the flyer, your group looks good. Also remember that your zero will shift slightly between grain weights and the POI changes with distances which may also help explain the lower t-box impacts. What did grouping look like at 25 yds.?

Then again, I may be way off base here since I haven't had the time to devote to the finer points of biomechanics like Fisher, Cowan, McNamara and others in that league.


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[Fatboy]

My suggestions after watching the video are adjust your grip once, and then stick with it for the string. As stated, either pull your support hand back some to get more meat on the grip (that's what most people would do) or do like me and adjust your support hand slightly forward.

What I mean by that is I place my support thumb on the take down lever so it indexes the same every time. My first finger wraps up under the gun where the trigger guard and the light switch meets, and I use the space between the first and second knuckle to "grip" on the trigger guard. I still have palms on the grip, and the rest of my fingers wrap naturally around the firing hand.

I can see the look on your face- your thinking wtf is this guy talking about? I learned to shoot like that after my wrist was partially fused, and it basically is my version of pointing my support thumb as far forward as possible.

I typed all of that just to state that while there is some flinch, it looks to be minor. The major issue that popped out to me milking the grip. (Fancy way of saying readjusting every shot.) Work that issue, and things should smooth out for you.

The last thing I'll mention is the group looks good, but what was your aiming point? If you were using the small brain stem circle, maybe adjust your sight the the right some. Before doing that though, shoot at 10 yards on the same type target, and see where your impacts are. (10 yards makes the math easier for the .5 MOA clicks on the RMR).

 

[Freedom Forged]

I believe some things are coming around for me. I'm not there yet but some of the things I learned in this thread has help me a lot. Though the result you see in the pics below are nowhere near most of you guys I can't tell you how stoked I am right now. Below are all of the targets from todays range trip except for one that I lost on the targets trip back to me.

All were fairly slow fire except for the one that says rapid fire, and by rapid fire I mean I shot as fast as I could re-aquire the sight picture. No particular number of rounds in the targets Some were just what was left in the mag at the time.

I feel real good at this point on what I need to continue to work on. I found myself concentrating some much on technique I forgot about the flinch. One time I started to anticipate the blast/recoil of the indoor range and just stopped completely and started over. It helped.

Thanks a lot for everyones help! I'm sure I'll need more later.

 

[chrischris]

Can you post your targets at 25 yards?

 

[Freedom Forged]

Can you post your targets at 25 yards?

Sure, I will. It will be next week and they may not be much to look at.

 

[chrischris]

Sure, I will. It will be next week and they may not be much to look at.

Awareness is curative. It's only when you realize your malfunctions that you can fix them. Keep shooting.

 

[Fatboy]

First off, good shooting. Looks like things are clicking.
My only comment is the 10yd bullseye target with the shots being left. Still very acceptable in terms of accuracy, but it indicates either a slight push to the trigger or the zero on the dot needs a click or two of windage. Only way to tell for sure is by adding some distance like
Chrischris said.