Dealing with the "Dunning-Kruger" spouse/BF/etc. | Primary & Secondary

Dealing with the "Dunning-Kruger" spouse/BF/etc.

Discussion in 'Retail Support' started by nate89, Oct 24, 2016.

  1. nate89

    nate89 Regular Member

    This is a common issue I have seen, and judging by what I read online, it happens pretty much everywhere else too. The offender is usually male, but I have had females guilty as well. It goes like this:

    New or newer gun owner comes into the store or range looking either for basic instruction, or for advice on purchasing a first gun. They, wanting to get good advice, occasionally bring someone along who is a self-described 'expert' on guns. Usually this person is the 'just get this pink charter arms .38 revolver, simple for a woman to operate, and never jams' guy. So, the question is; in general, how do you best deal with this situation? Usually the person has been asked to come along because their opinion is seen to be valuable, so just brushing them aside or immediately calling them out as an idiot is not usually effective. Stories of how this has gone well, or even not gone well, could be a valuable contribution to the discussion. Ideally this, and other similar threads, can be started to become a source of help for others dealing with similar situations.
  2. DocGKR

    DocGKR Dr.Ballistics Moderator

    Facts always help...
    dan187 likes this.
  3. dan187

    dan187 Newbie

    When I encounter this, if I interject, I try to be polite about it. Start with "excuse me" and then try to be polite about why "X" would be a poor choice when compared to "Y". Such as, "Excuse me, but I would suggest looking at a Glock 19 instead of that XD. They have a more proven record of reliability and are even used by many police departments." That usually helps more than going "Look moron the Charter arms is a piece of shit."

    I also usually recommend renting the guns they are interested in, and finding out which one they like most. This works for me, as the shop I normally go to has an indoor range and rentals available.
  4. CBank

    CBank Newbie

    One of the ones that I have seen the most is "she cant really rack the slide, so we are looking at revolvers". Jokingly, I always tease and say to keep someone as ornery as him in line, this slide will pose no problem. Then give them a firearm and show them how technique is what is required and not strength. That leads to that women are often great shooter as they learn techniques that men try to muscle through. There are some great options for you and I think these would fit what you are hoping to use them for...
    Just one example of times where people are inhibited by being told what they cant do.
  5. nate89

    nate89 Regular Member

    As an example:

    I had a couple come into the range wanting to try out a few guns for concealed carry. The one they were most interested in was the Shield, but he was asking for it in .40. I asked what his reasoning for wanting a .40 over the 9mm, and he replied that the .40 has better 'stopping power' and that whole line. Like @DocGKR mentioned, I started a discussion about how 9 offers the advantages of greater capacity in the same size, generally more easily controlled, etc., and finished by saying that 9 and 40 are going to do essentially the exact same thing. I have found that is helps to interject a bit of humor or something, and follow up with info. He asked something along the lines of where I had heard that, or who said they were essentially the same. "Science" was my response. That got a bit of a laugh, and then I was able to follow up with the facts behind it, without it sounding like I was attacking them. Gratefully, they ended up taking both out, and **surprise** both shot the 9 better and, ended up picking one up later that week.

    also, the ballistic sitrep was a gold mine for the topic, and I have pointed quite a few people in that direction who had questions

    MOLON_LABE Regular Member

    Having worked a public shooting range that rented firearms as an office staff member and later as the HMFIC I have had plenty of opportunities to see this.
    Some rules to live by.

    - Always be polite, especially to the person being talked into something they may not need or want.

    Ask the following leading questions.

    - Just having fun, or looking at buying something?

    - Whats the intended use of the firearm?
    Recreation, Competition, Self Defense, Hunting, Collecting etc.

    - Is this your first firearm?

    - What level of training do you have if any, (to both of them, but especially the trusted advisor)

    - What made you decide on that model? Why do they want to test that one out?

    After listening to their answers respectfully using your good judgement and tact in demonstrating advantages of whatever you KNOW will in all probability work better for them.

    Some people are beyond saving and will respond belligerently to anyone questioning their choice, experstise and experience- or lack thereof. But most will respond well. Don't BS anyone, if you don't know = you don't know and admit it.

    For some people a firearm that doesn't make sense for you will make great sense for someone else.

    I used to keep printouts of the FBI's decision to ditch .40 and move to 9mm, as well as an image of various popular self defense handgun rounds in ballistic gel, and recovered hollow point duty rated .380, 9mm, .357, .40, .45 projectiles behind the counter as ways to backup what I was telling them. Physical evidence always trumps hearsay.

    I would always cover the fundamentals of safety, grip, trigger press, aiming, stance, and loading/unloading and if needbe ensured that myself or another instructor assisted them beyond the initial check in with the Range Officer if they needed or wanted.

    Velocitas, Opprimere,
    Violentia Operandi
    nate89 likes this.
  7. nate89

    nate89 Regular Member

    Sound advice, thank you. I tend to use similar questions already, but I have not tried having printouts/pictures/etc. there on hand for people to see. That is a solid idea and I will give it a try.

    MOLON_LABE Regular Member


    Isosceles is not new.


    Its small, metal, and moving fast they all work, no two handgun wounds are alike.

    Velocitas, Opprimere,
    Violentia Operandi
  9. DocGKR

    DocGKR Dr.Ballistics Moderator

    I may have seen that gel photo before....
    nate89 and L. Moore like this.
  10. Preface: I'm not saying that this approach is the best but I worked in a gun shop for three and a half years while in school and before starting my career...

    The retailer I worked for is a massive Florida retailer, and I worked in the busiest store they owned, so, lots of foot traffic, lots of derp. Initially I tried to push everyone in the right direction, spending lots of time with each customer and trying to really set them up for success. I have a real passion for firearms and self defense amongst other things and really wanted to see people walk out set up for success.

    Growing up I was largely sheltered from the majority of the gun community. My father was a career police officer, well educated, humble and open minded. He also didn't marry his cousin and can speak in complete sentences and make logical decisions based on reason. I thought most gun people were like us. Well the truth is, no.

    As a ballpark estimate I'd say somewhere between 85% - 95% of people are actually borderline high functioning retards, and not the Ben Affleck accountant type, I mean they're not full retard, but simple tasks like utilizing a four way stop can be fairly challenging as well as intimidating.

    You have to learn to feel people out. What I quickly found out was that about 1 in 100 people I encountered actually wanted to hear what I had to say. The other 99 already have their mind made up and you aren't going to throw any amount of logic or education at them that's going to change their mind. And if they show up with their ex reserve deputy SWAT Ninja uncle, you can bet the farm you're wasting you're breath.

    With most people I would just stand there and agree with everything they said to get them on their way quicker.

    People here obviously take their self defense seriously. These people are a small percentage of the gun owning population, and an even smaller portion of the GP... they're people in LE, contracting, Fire, mil, serious civilians.. most people aren't that. Most of the people you encounter it won't make a damn bit of difference weather you sell them a Charter Arms Bulldog or a Salient Arms G19. At best they shoot a few boxes of ammunition out of the gun every year and achieve a skill level somewhere between "terrible" and "not a danger to them selves or others."

    In order to keep you're sanity I suggest:

    1. Realize you can't save them all and most people are actually in fact high functioning retards.

    2. You don't want to just be a burnt out dick and turn away good potential talent. Develop and utilize a system to qualify you're customers, you should be able to figure out pretty quickly weather they have potential or not.

    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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