Crazy Training Range Idea? | Primary & Secondary

Crazy Training Range Idea?

Discussion in 'Training General' started by Swobe1, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. Swobe1

    Swobe1 Newbie

    I'm posting this here hoping it's the right spot. I'm fortunate enough to own a little bit of ground and have my own range setup. I've been thinking of trying to use that for a type of training area for people who want to do some conditioning while shooting, i.e. kettle bell swings, pull up bar, sand bags, etc. It would be a little exclusive as I'd try to vet anyone who was wanting to use it, but before any of that, is this a terrible idea? Not needed? I think there a lot of ranges that let you shoot multiple targets, but not many that let you run and gun and bring or use exercise equipment and get your heart rate up to induce some stress. I'm in the middle of Iowa and there aren't a whole lot of ranges close to me. I have a lot of research to do yet, but thought I'd ask the good people of P and S to see what they think.


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  2. leozinho

    leozinho Amateur

    I wouldn't do it if I were you for a multitude of reasons.

    1) liability

    2) demand for working out and shooting is going to be less than you think (If you aren't doing it for profit, there's even less reason to create the range.)

    3) there's a time and place for mixing the two, but for the vast majority of the time I want to keep S&C separate from my range sessions.

    I could probably think of more reasons why this is a bad idea.
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  3. Swobe1

    Swobe1 Newbie

    Those are all things I've thought about. Like I said, it's just an idea, and it could always be used as just a regular range day for people. I was thinking a lot about law enforcement and giving them a range to work through some situational stuff versus just a regular range. It was just an idea to give people a chance to do something a little different.

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  4. Asr34

    Asr34 Amateur

    That sounds like an awesome idea! However, I think that's all it could really be. I can't think of an insurance company that would touch that with a ten foot pole. Even the NRA insurance would probably say no. If you just plowed ahead and went with whatever homeowners' insurance you have they would drop you like a hot potato and deny your claims.

    Your warrior shoulder angel is outpacing the weenie insurance adjuster angel by a mile. He pretty much put that nerd in a locker, but sometimes the nerd is right.

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  5. I and a couple good buddies have done this type of thing at my home range. My conclusion is that there is 0 benefit to doing strength and conditioning exercising with live weapons in the mix. Sprints/ burpees before running a drill can sort of simulate stress but I think FOF with airsoft/ Sims is way more beneficial. Just my .02 and insurance will be an issue if you're trying to run this as a business.
  6. hellion

    hellion Amateur

    Yeah, that Pat McNamara guy is an idiot, doing conditioning while shooting /s

    In all seriousness...the liability of the range is enough to say no, in my opinion. If your heart is in it, talk to an insurance adjuster, not the internet though. If someone will insure ranges that sell alcohol, some exercise equipment shouldn't be a problem.

    The bigger question I would ask yourself is; why are there no ranges by you? Is it a lack of customer base or are you sitting on a potential gold mine? Try to avoid fantasy and wearing rose colored glasses when you answer yourself.
  7. Swobe1

    Swobe1 Newbie

    The liability is the reason I probably won't, but like I said, it was an idea and I wanted others input before I just bulled forward and did something dumb. This was never an idea to make money and turn a huge profit, but more of a place where serious shooters who truly wanted to be better could utilize a range that wasn't so stagnant. I was thinking of putting a car on it, barricades, and the like. My ambitions may be exceeding reality.

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  8. Putting car/s barricades and the such is a great idea.
  9. Lol, well shit if Pat Mac does it in a video well then...
  10. hellion

    hellion Amateur

    Sorry...what have you done? Your introduction post may leaving out some details, but as it stands, I'll take McNamara's opinion over you and a couple buddies that found "0 benefit". If nothing else, some added PT is some kind of benefit
  11. I'm not a range owner, nor an insurance adjuster, so my opinion is worth basically nothing except the time you take to read it. I would put some barricades up, maybe drag a car out there, and maybe some kettle bells or pullup bars. I would not, repeat, NOT charge anything to anyone, and make everyone sign liability waivers. It would be a 'friends and family' only kind of place, so only a few people who you know intimately, and maybe some on good authority, would know of where it is and be able to access it.

    I know a guy in my city who did something similar. Him and 9 other skateboarding friends threw in together and rented out a warehouse and built their own private use skate park inside. It is what I'd do.
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  12. leozinho

    leozinho Amateur

    Simmer down. We all know who Pat Mac is and respect him. And no one is telling you how to train. Do what ever you want.

    BTW, the topic is probably worthy of its own thread, but if you are interested, Robert Keller talks about how mixing S&C with shooting at from 47:10 to about 50:00 in this video (he's not for it.)
  13. hellion

    hellion Amateur

    No need to simmer down, that wasn't intended to be a hostile comment, just a direct question. My point is, this place is founded on the "why", correct? So if someone is going to contradict something a nationally recognized trainer condones, a little context of who is talking and what their reasoning is goes a long way.

    Simply stating that someone find zero benefit, is inadequate. There is always going to be at least some sort of benefit to any aspect of any training, even if the juice isn't worth the squeeze in the long run. So when someone speaks in absolutes, that typically indicates that they didn't fully flesh this idea out, which bears the question "what have you done?" Why should we listen to anyone and their buds on a contradictory thought? Did they fully understand all of the potential benefits? Did they thoughtfully or even scientifically analyze the results? Or did they just not like how the results felt? What background and experience drove this process? When the subsequent rebuttal is a comment along the lines of "well if it's on the internet/in a video/on Instagram, then it must me right", at least in my experience, indicates an opinion based on emotion, not logic.

    Opinions based on emotion are how we was an industry are stuck with erroneous cliches, such as .45 stopping power, racking shotguns is enough to make anyone wet themselves, or that you should drag a body into your house after shooting someone.

    For the record, while I have mixed some strength and conditioning in with firearms training in the past, I do not currently do it, nor am I a proponent of it, I'm largely indifferent.
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  14. Me? Nothing of significant note. I have tons of respect for Pat Mac, he's a bad ass in pond of bad assness.
    But he doesn't do his S&C at the range, he does it at the gym and then combines a bad ass show of strength/ endurance with a bad ass display of weapons manipulation for videos.
    If you're looking to find out if you're capable of doing some monster DLs and then shooting some nice groups then cool more power to you. But if you want to get a good workout on it's better to concentrate on that, and likewise if you want to become a better shooter I believe it's smarter to concentrate on that when you're working on that. What I found was that trying to combine those two disciplines decreased the benefits for both YMMV. FYI this was following the 5x5 workout.
    I did however find that sprints combined with both pistol and rifle drills have been very beneficial!
    Sunshine_Shooter likes this.
  15. No worries, opinions are like assholes and all that. I'm here for the quality information, I don't get hurt feelings easily, and take everything with a grain of salt, or a shot of tequila.
  16. For the record, while I have mixed some strength and conditioning in with firearms training in the past, I do not currently do it, nor am I a proponent of it, I'm largely indifferent.[/QUOTE]

    I assume you don't do it anymore cause you got less than satisfactory results?
  17. Swobe1

    Swobe1 Newbie

    This was more the lines of what I was thinking. I never intended this to be a full blown workout combined with shooting. It was a mixture before of the both for a once a week or two weeks type deal.

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  18. hellion

    hellion Amateur

    Yes and no. In short, for me the juice isn't worth the squeeze. First, in my experience, what most trainers are saying recently I believe is true - physical stress and mental stress are two different things. I still try to work in plyometrics, or sprinting on certain drills, to get my heart rate up. Because shooting at less than ideal conditions can have a benefit, in my experience. Second, instead of just doing moderate physical stressors, I can see some benefits to doing a more strenuous exercise. However my schedule does not allow regular shooting training to see maximum benefit, and transporting equipment to and from my range is a hassle.

    I see some benefits, but it either just does not work for me currently, or I'm not willing to change my lifestyle at this moment.
  19. PM07

    PM07 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    There is some validity in the concept. For example, when I was on bike patrol, in training we would do sprints on the bike, then have to dismount and shoot . It showed how even short sprints, say 4-6 blocks, would affect accuracy to some degree, even minor.

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