Considering an S&B Short Dot

[Dr. Cornwallis]

I initially bought a T2 for my KAC SR-15 Mod 2 with 16in barrel, however, I’ll be submitting a Form 1 for the lower and will be placing the T2 on a Mod 2 CQB upper. The T2 is more than adequate for most of what I do, however, with the addition of a second, shorter upper, I want to milk the 16 for everything it’s worth, which leads me to an LPV.

I recently was messing around with a buddies BCM MK12 with a Vortex Razor Gen II 1-6 on it and it got me hooked on the LPV again. Then earlier today I had the opportunity to look through another buddies K16i and it really blew my mind.

I understand the Vortex is a top shelf optic, however, my heart really desires an S&B or a Khales. Why? I’m not really sure. I suppose “because it does.” Perhaps it’s their great Teutonic heritage, perhaps it’s because I’ve always wanted a Short Dot; and if I’m going to throw down my hard earned doll hairs, I want there to be nothing left to be desired.

I’m considering the S&B PMII 1.1-4x20 and the 1-8x24 as well as the Khales K16i. Money is not a factor as I’m going to buy whatever the best option is and if I have to save another month or two it’s no big deal as I already have a rifle with a functioning, quality optic on it.

I’m currently leaning strongly towards the S&B offerings becasue:

A) External adjustable and locking turrets
B) I’ve always wanted a Short Dot

Unless someone(s) can offer me a compelling reason to go with a K16i over the Short Dot, my preference is towards S&B.

What is the major difference between the different models of Short Dot 1-8 product lines? The S&B website is somewhat confusing as it as some labeled 1-8 CC and others not, however, it looks as though in the description they all have the CC function.

As far as magnification goes, I had a TR-24 for years with the triangle and never found 4 power to leave me wanting more on a 16in rifle and I also liked that it was second focal plane.

Is there any reason to go with the 1-8 over the 1-4 other than the greater magnification? Does the 24mm objective offer any more light transmission or a substantially better FOV than the 20mm on the 1-1-4?

The biggest thing that has me looking at either model of S&B over the Khales is the externally adjustable, locking turrets. That’s a feature I really like.

All three are daylight bright, all three are quality glass, all three have great reticles. First vs second focal plane is something I can give or take, however, I think I have a slight preference towards second focal plane.


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[tylerw02]

On a rifle like a 16" with low-powered optics, you're not going to be spinning knobs often. You'll use the reticle more often.

The objective diameter, such as 24mm has nothing to do with FOV, rather creating an exit pupil. The larger the exit pupil, the more forgiving it is. The more magnification, the smaller the exit pupil. Therefore, the larger lenses are needed to maintain a useable exit pupil as magnification goes up.

Light transmission is just that; transmission. You don't need a lever objective lenses to transmit a higher percentage of light. However, the larger the lens the more light and this resolution. Coatings and lens quality are far more important at the end of the day.

I honestly think the Kahles is superior to both short dots, and I'm a bender fan. I own three of them and will ultimately get another down the road. But on the 1-x, they just don't have it compared to the Kahles.


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[Tuukka]

Having used the original Short Dot 1.1-4x, the newer Short Dot gen 2 in 1.1-4x and the Kahles K16i.

I would go with the Kahles K16i with the G4 B reticle, you can check how the reticle BDC lines match with your loads.

Current scope that I am using now is the Swarovski Z8i, but for more demanding/tough use, I would probably opt for the Kahles.

 

[krax]

1-4 Short Dot was the bees knees not too long ago, but there's better options now for the niche it once filled and I wouldn't consider external turrets a pro for this kind of optic either.

I assume this isn't going on a duty rifle, so it's up to you how important a true 1x is on the low end of the magnification.

A Vortex Razor or Khales would be what I'd look at, and with a MIL recticle.

 

[Dr. Cornwallis]

1-4 Short Dot was the bees knees not too long ago, but there's better options now for the niche it once filled and I wouldn't consider external turrets a pro for this kind of optic either.

I assume this isn't going on a duty rifle, so it's up to you how important a true 1x is on the low end of the magnification.

A Vortex Razor or Khales would be what I'd look at, and with a MIL recticle.

It’s not a duty rifle right now but it is a serious use rifle. It could be used as a duty rifle in the near future, though, depending on the path I take at my current department.


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[Dr. Cornwallis]

I’ve decided on the Kahles with the SI1 reticle in a Geissele 1.93 mount.


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[pointblank4445]

I've got or had every flavor of S&B short dot there is. I did a pro/con write up on LF that's easy to find. It may be helpful. Had the Kahles too. Like Tuukka, I'd go G4B next time round if I did Kahles again.

 

[Pat Tarrant]

What's the reason behind the GB4 reticle preference over the S1 / SM1 on the Kahles?

 

[pointblank4445]

What's the reason behind the GB4 reticle preference over the S1 / SM1 on the Kahles?

@Pat Tarrant

The SM1 was pretty cool; if you're someone who insists on the Eotech circle/dot concept it's worth looking at. Anything beyond close-quarter, I don't get as much out of a circle dot (that's partially why you'll see that S&B 1-8 High Power of mine up for grabs). I thought the extent of the Mil stadia on the SM1 was a bit unnecessary considering what it is. I don't see much point in going past 3 Mils without any sort of wind reference. Like I said, it's great for all things up close, but if that were my game...why not Aimpoint Micro/Comp M5 up and save cool $1k?

The G4B is more of a KISS principle. The S&B Short Dot LE with the 2nd FP #7 has been my go-to general purpose optic for several years. The Kahles G4B is just a lighter, higher magnification version of that concept with a few stadia below the cross hair that can offer a few additional hold points. I was confident with my Short Dot LE out to 400y before I started fiddling with the elevation adjustments (yeah, yeah...some of you guys don't bother...I know).
IIRC, the 1.3, 2.0, and 2.8 mil stadia (on 6x) will get you about 300y, 375y, and 450y respectively with BH 77gr 5.56 Red box on a 16" gun. That's plenty of distance/reference for a general-purpose 5.56 carbine.

 

[Dr. Cornwallis]

So after I️ decided on the Kahles, I️ was able to get an incredible deal on a Vortex Razor Gen 2 so I️ actually ended up going with that, reticle is the JM1. I’ll post up an in depth review on why I️ went that route and how I like the Optic here in the next week or two.


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