Can I have all the lumens?

Matt Landfair · May 6, 2015

Matt Landfair
March 12

Can I have all the lumens? (A discussion about light).

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Tim Thomas, Scott Jedlinski and 9 others like this.
Rick Yates TJ Maloney we had this discussion the other day and you had some good input on it from a Patrol officers perspective
March 12 at 1:02pm · Edited · Like
Aaron CowanYes. Backsplash is usually the concern over having all the lumens and all the lumens can be used just fine with proper technique. The advantage of going lower lumens due to a lack of proper technique is not an actual advantage it just allows you to be sloppy.
March 12 at 1:03pm · Unlike · 8
Matt LandfairI am running a 1000 lumen clicky single output Surefire Fury for patrol, and the 500 lumen version as backup. My handguns with weapon lights run the X300U. My rifles also run 500 lumen clicky Surefire Furys. I would run 1000 lumen Furys on the rifle's if the lights were more compact.
March 12 at 1:03pm · Like · 2
Stephen BellI love my U-boat for outside at night, but it's almost too much indoors with white walls...I just need to paint all of my walls black.
March 12 at 1:03pm · Like · 1
Jimfrared PhilapyToo much can be a bad thing.
March 12 at 1:03pm · Like · 1
Matt LandfairI have yet to experience the bad Jimfrared.
March 12 at 1:04pm · Like · 4
Matt LandfairAt DARC - we are running white light for the first few days (all night ops, pitch black in a shoothouse) - there hasn't been too much light there.
March 12 at 1:06pm · Edited · Like · 4
Michael WeissFor outdoor use I say 1000 lumen minimum. I like the price point of the 1100 Streamlight on Botach... I think I paid like $70
March 12 at 1:05pm · Like
TJ MaloneyWhat is the discussion about? Just specifically the brightness of the light?
March 12 at 1:06pm · Like · 1
Michael WeissI personally like < 500 for indoor applications cause my vision gets washed out when I spray walls with the X300
March 12 at 1:06pm · Like · 1
Stephen BellIf you're buying from Botach you should definitely be using their "Make an offer" feature. Can usually get an extra few % off.
March 12 at 1:06pm · Like · 1
Aaron CowanThen focus on the umbrella and not the hot spot unless you need to.
March 12 at 1:07pm · Unlike · 2
Michael WeissThey do affiliate marketing too
March 12 at 1:07pm · Like
Brandon Hizak"Too much light" is just a training issue. Thank you DB!
March 12 at 1:09pm · Unlike · 2
Matt Landfair TJ- this is an offshoot from the APL thread which wandered into use of light with guns!
March 12 at 1:09pm · Like
Rick YatesToo much light TJ Maloney. If it's a bad thing. Remember we talked about this a week or so ago on NTLF
March 12 at 1:10pm · Like
Stephen BellDB?
March 12 at 1:10pm · Like
Matt LandfairDarryl?
March 12 at 1:10pm · Like
Matt LandfairI have never, NEVER, experienced too much light. Light is our friend. Light helps me see what will harm me, or what I do not want to harm.
March 12 at 1:11pm · Like
Brandon HizakDarryl Bolke
March 12 at 1:12pm · Unlike · 3
Matt LandfairHe needs to join our forum.
March 12 at 1:12pm · Like · 1
Jimfrared PhilapyBeing fully kitted out is one thing. Stumbling out of bed in your boxers with a handgun with a WML is another. Correct me if I'm wrong.
March 12 at 1:12pm · Like · 2
Matt LandfairWhy not flip the wall switch?
March 12 at 1:12pm · Like · 1
TJ MaloneyI said it is possible that too much light could be a bad thing but I haven't experienced that much light.

I think a major part of of a light that people just over look is how that light is distributed. Throw vs corona size.
March 12 at 1:13pm · Like
Matt LandfairLight from a flashlight projects your location worse than turning on the house light.
March 12 at 1:13pm · Like · 1
Stephen BellWall switches aren't always in a convenient location though
March 12 at 1:13pm · Like
Phil AxelrodI like lights in the 300-500 lumen range for weaponlights. I find them to be a good middle-ground for the indoor/outdoor uses. I also prefer a moderate amount of splash over a super focused beam.

I don't pretend to be a low-light guru, and I'm sure that there are many out there who probably want "ALL OF THE LUMENS!!!," but for my purposes, "MOST OF THE LUMENS!!!" works well.
March 12 at 1:14pm · Unlike · 3
TJ MaloneyPlus turning the light on puts you on a more even playing field than if you can control when there is or isn't light and where it points.
March 12 at 1:15pm · Like · 1
Matt Landfair(we aren't getting into strobe techniques here)
March 12 at 1:15pm · Like · 1
Jimfrared PhilapyThis discussions tickles me noggin.
March 12 at 1:15pm · Unlike · 4
Rick YatesI sleep with the lights on.. Vampires & shit
March 12 at 1:16pm · Unlike · 8
Jimfrared PhilapyOnly low light experience I've had is Hackathorn's ATP class. Focused learning the correct handheld light techniques.
March 12 at 1:18pm · Like
TJ MaloneyI sleep during the day cause I work nights. I still have a WML on my bedside pistol.
March 12 at 1:18pm · Like · 4
Rick Yates Jimfrared i do think there is solid logic to your comment about bump in the night vs full kit or even EDC. Speaking from experience, in the event of a home invasion the lass you have to do to prepare the better.
March 12 at 1:18pm · Like · 2
Matt LandfairI'm not saying rely on interior lights- all of my home defense weapons have lights mounted.
March 12 at 1:18pm · Like · 2
Jimfrared PhilapyIMO, you should be able to navigate your dwelling in total darkness from your bedroom.
March 12 at 1:19pm · Like · 1
TJ MaloneyUntil you trip over the home invader that shouldn't have been there or something the burglar dropped.
March 12 at 1:20pm · Like · 1
Matt Landfairor a cat or a kid
March 12 at 1:21pm · Like · 1
Matt Landfairor drunk neighbor
March 12 at 1:21pm · Like · 1
Rick YatesPSSSH. I have a 16 month old. Toys would cause me to break my neck in no time
March 12 at 1:21pm · Unlike · 3
TJ MaloneyMatt your a cat guy huh?
March 12 at 1:21pm · Like · 1
Matt LandfairNo cats in my house
March 12 at 1:21pm · Like · 2
Jimfrared PhilapyAbout ready to post the kid with toys thing, don't have them if you've already noticed.
March 12 at 1:22pm · Like · 2
Rick YatesFor home defense, a WML seems to be an obvious choice. But the question remains.. All the lumens
March 12 at 1:23pm · Like
Matt LandfairI responded to a fellow officer's house for a potential burglary in progress - the officer did not shoot the suspect - the suspect was a drunk neighbor who thought he was at his own home.
March 12 at 1:23pm · Like · 2
Jimfrared Philapy^DaYum, that's really sloshed.
March 12 at 1:23pm · Like
Matt LandfairI don't think there would be a defend able excuse for shooting him.
March 12 at 1:24pm · Like · 1
Matt LandfairSo we have established - we need light
March 12 at 1:24pm · Like · 2
Jimfrared PhilapyAye.
March 12 at 1:25pm · Like
Rick YatesI don't like my neighbors enough to not shoot them in that situation...

I kid, I kid.
March 12 at 1:25pm · Like · 2
Matt LandfairWhat is the average lumens of a household light/lamp?
March 12 at 1:25pm · Like
Matt LandfairWe need enough light to id threats and potential weapons the threat has - we also need a throw powerful enough to reach the longest distance within your home.
March 12 at 1:27pm · Like · 2
TJ Maloney800 = 60 watt
1600 lumens = 100 watt
March 12 at 1:27pm · Edited · Like · 1
Phil AxelrodThe number one reason to have ready access to lights in home defense situations: Legos.

I don't know about you guys, but I spread that shit around like caltrops (in case of ninjas) and I can't remember where all of them are.
March 12 at 1:29pm · Like · 4
Matt LandfairThese are things you need to consider when choosing a light. I prefer all the lumens. I have trained with all of the lumens.
March 12 at 1:30pm · Like · 1
Matt Landfair*keep in mind - those are the MINIMUM requirements of a light.
March 12 at 1:31pm · Like
Brandon Hizak Rick Yates a WML is for shooting, not target ID.
March 12 at 1:31pm · Unlike · 1
Matt LandfairIs an unknown justification to point your muzzle at something?
March 12 at 1:33pm · Like
TJ MaloneyI hate the phrase all the lumens. It just sounds like day light training.
March 12 at 1:34pm · Unlike · 1
Rick YatesUsing the techniques that Cowan described couldn't one ID a threat using the umbrella of the beam without muzzling them? In a situation where time is of the essence it could boil down to taking the risk of pointing your gun at someone who you don't intend to or not be prepared because when awaken startled, you accidentally drop kicked your hand held across the room.
March 12 at 1:35pm · Edited · Like
Matt LandfairCould. Is it optimal though?
March 12 at 1:36pm · Like
TJ MaloneyHow many lumens is a welding arc. That is too many.
March 12 at 1:36pm · Like
Matt LandfairIf I could get that in WML form - I would so rock that!
March 12 at 1:37pm · Like
David BahdeSo, if you don't use the WML to identify who you are about to shoot, are you supposed to use a hand held light, identify they are a threat, THEN turn on your WML and shoot them??? Do you drop the hand held light?? I get it, search for "stuff" with the handheld, but if I am looking for an armed threat I am doing it with the one on my gun...
March 12 at 1:38pm · Edited · Like · 2
Dan GuyI've gone white light outdoors and situation dictated that I go lights off again. I had a 500 lumen WML. When I clicked it off all I could see was a giant purple blob thanks to that 500 lumens bouncing off the ground and surrounding vegetation. I no longer use that light. 300 is good for me.
March 12 at 1:37pm · Like
Rick YatesMy thought coincide with what you said David. Depending on the intent if the invaders, one may not have that much time.
March 12 at 1:39pm · Like
Matt LandfairI have trained to run both simultaneously.
March 12 at 1:39pm · Like
TJ MaloneySituationally dependent. If you are searching for a known threat possibly armed no one is going to be upset you used a WML. If you are trying to figure out what that weird noise is in the middle of the night it prob doesn't need a gun pointed at it.
March 12 at 1:40pm · Unlike · 2
Matt LandfairI prefer jaw index or whatever for the handheld when shooting.
March 12 at 1:40pm · Like
Rick YatesHmm. I guess I should take TJ Maloney's opinion seriously here. If I shoot someone there's a chance he may be the responding officer. Haha
March 12 at 1:41pm · Edited · Unlike · 1
Rick YatesMatt that opens another discussion. If it's said one shoots at the light then wouldn't indexing off the jaw be a bad idea?
March 12 at 1:42pm · Like
Matt LandfairThat index is only when I am shooting.
March 12 at 1:43pm · Edited · Like · 1
Rick YatesGotcha
March 12 at 1:44pm · Like
Matt Landfairsame idea - your WML will be center of your mass.... well not center....
March 12 at 1:44pm · Edited · Like · 1
Rick YatesNot with my Snoop Dogg grip
March 12 at 1:44pm · Like
William Pettylumens = information = problem solving
March 12 at 1:45pm · Unlike · 5
Dan GuySo, you don't want to talk about lumens anymore.
March 12 at 1:45pm · Like
Rick YatesThat would also be assuming you are squared up with your threat, which of that grip is only would be used when shooting it shouldn't be an issue assuming there is only one attacker.
March 12 at 1:46pm · Like
William Pettyyou know who doesn't like a lot of lumens? dudes who don't have to work at night on a daily or don't run low light courses several times a month. never once have i been in an oh shit situation and thought ... huh ... i have too much light. i can see and process too much information.
March 12 at 1:46pm · Unlike · 5
Matt Landfairwould more lumens allow you to see the area better?
March 12 at 1:46pm · Like
Matt Landfairjust dont temple index with your wml on.
March 12 at 1:47pm · Like · 2
William Pettyyes... its science. you either need white light or rhodopsin
March 12 at 1:47pm · Like
TJ MaloneyIf the person shooting at you is good enough to shoot at a light and hit it you are screwed anyway.
March 12 at 1:48pm · Like · 3
TJ MaloneyGo walk around a welding shop William Petty
March 12 at 1:48pm · Like
Matt Landfairwe have several here that run nvg and IR
March 12 at 1:48pm · Like · 1
Rick YatesGood point
March 12 at 1:48pm · Like
Dan GuyYou know who also doesn't like a lot of lumens? This guy. Who works at night and has been in numerous "oh shit situations". Sometimes alone and outnumbered which is why the light went back off in the first place.
March 12 at 1:48pm · Like
William Pettyim having a hard time buying that
March 12 at 1:49pm · Edited · Unlike · 1
Rick YatesSo in a situation like that would a dual output light come in handy?
March 12 at 1:51pm · Like
Matt Landfair Dan, to say something like that, for the benefit of those who are learning, please explain your logic.
March 12 at 1:51pm · Like · 2
Matt LandfairI only use single output.
March 12 at 1:51pm · Like · 2
William Pettywhat is does a welding shop have to do with the use of handheld or wml lights?
March 12 at 1:51pm · Like · 1
Matt Landfairtoo many lumens
March 12 at 1:52pm · Like
TJ MaloneyAbsolutely nothing but it is way too much light.
March 12 at 1:52pm · Like
William Pettyi dont' use a welding torch as a handheld.... im sorry that does not make sense
March 12 at 1:52pm · Like · 1
Matt LandfairWelding torches have a horrible throw.
March 12 at 1:53pm · Like · 2
William Pettylets keep the topic realistic
March 12 at 1:54pm · Unlike · 1
TJ MaloneyThere are levels that are to bright to the point they cause damage. So where does that line start? Everyone says more = better
March 12 at 1:54pm · Like
Matt Landfairfor wml and handhelds - we dont have them yet
March 12 at 1:55pm · Like
Dan GuyOk. It's 3 am. No one knows where you are exactly. You are checking a dope load out spot. You find a bundle on the ground and hear scuffling of multiple people in the brush just outside the reach of your light. There have been numerous instances of badguys carrying guns and badguys using guns in this area. Do you stay lights on and make yourself an easy target, or go lights and move a little before calling for backup? If you chose to go lights off and change positions you may find that you can't see shit after going lights on with a 500 lumen light.
March 12 at 1:55pm · Like
TJ MaloneyTechnology in flashlights is growing quickly. There are 3600 lumen affordable handheld flash lights. And handheld lights that will light stuff on fire now.
March 12 at 1:56pm · Like
Matt Landfair Dan- that is quite specific and not really our discussion. That is tactics.
March 12 at 1:57pm · Like
TJ MaloneyThat sounds like a movie plot. Was that lethal weapon?
March 12 at 1:57pm · Like · 4
Matt Landfair TJ- untill Surefire produces one - I won't pay attention.
March 12 at 1:57pm · Like · 1
Matt Landfair Scott
March 12 at 1:58pm · Like
Dan GuyWell, in that specific situation I didn't want 500 lumens. So I thought it was relevant to a discussion of lumens. Maybe you could clarify your question. Also, it appears that you are discussing tactics when you are discussing weather to use a handheld or WML or turn the wall switch on.
March 12 at 1:58pm · Like
William Pettyi give up... what if a kangaroo escapes from the zoo with an rpg.
March 12 at 1:58pm · Like · 4
Matt Landfairwall switch has all the lumens
March 12 at 1:59pm · Like · 3
William Pettyand ive used that before
March 12 at 1:59pm · Like · 1
TJ MaloneyThat's true
March 12 at 2:00pm · Like
David BahdeLumens are important, but they are also a big part of the marketing, if you intend to bet yours or your partners life on it there are some other considerations.
March 12 at 2:00pm · Edited · Like
Aaron Cowan"The plan for A" is more about what you do about what happens then what you plan to do about it.
March 12 at 2:00pm · Like
William Pettythe problem with lumens isn't a hardware issue... its a software issue. people don't know how to use light and so 200 lumens allows you to be sloppy and get away with poor technique. again... lumens=information=problem solving. you can what if anything away... but ask yourself this... is it an issue with the equipment or are you just unprepared to admit you don't know how to correctly use said equipment? as a full time instructor and full time cop... the latter is what i encounter more with students and peers. very very rarely is it legitimately and equipment issue.
March 12 at 2:04pm · Unlike · 4
Rick YatesWait.. Which zoo did this kangaroo escape from?
March 12 at 2:10pm · Like
TJ MaloneyWill has way more credentials than me but I believe purely brightness of a light is subject to diminishing returns. When the pattern of the light, flood vs throw, should be what people are looking at. The brightest light I have worked with was 1,000 lumens I typically carry a 600 lumen light. Neither was "too bright" but the 600 lumen light had way more flood and was plenty bright to gather information.
March 12 at 2:19pm · Like
TJ MaloneyThe 1,000 lumen light had a lot more throw to be fair and if I was out in the woods it would help me gather more information distance related.
March 12 at 2:20pm · Like
Matt LandfairWe can go to Wal-Mart and get an inexpensive 1000 lumen light which is no match in performance to a Surefire 1000 lumen.
March 12 at 2:22pm · Like · 2
TJ MaloneyThe 1,000 lumen light I used was a surefire. I don't remember which one it was not the lawman. The 600 I use is the peacekeeper.

Edit: I think the 1,000 lumen light might have been the P3x fury.
March 12 at 2:27pm · Edited · Like
William Pettythis is like engineers in the 30's talking about horsepower... "if we put 200 horses in an engine people will explode... too many horses!"
March 12 at 2:29pm · Edited · Like · 1
TJ MaloneyI think it's like equating horsepower to vehicle performance. And not taking into account transmission, suspension, or weight.
March 12 at 2:30pm · Unlike · 1
Roddy McCaskill Jr.The biggest issue I've seen is design related. So many people run streamlights ect w no off switch and end up accidentally turning it on at inn opportune times. Or always having dead batteries from it turning on in the case.
March 12 at 2:36pm · Like
TJ MaloneyI have this on my rifle x300 to help prevent that.

http://www.unitytactical.com/shop/exo-surefire-x-series/

EXO - Surefire X-Series - Unity Tactical
EXO™ is a complementary product for the Surefire® X200™, X300™ and X300™ Ultra weapon lights for...
UNITYTACTICAL.COM
March 12 at 2:38pm · Like · 1 · Remove Preview
John ChapmanLumens are to lights as water pressure is to fire hoses. It's as much, or more, about beam shape as it is about lumens; and beam shape is all about reflector design.
March 12 at 2:47pm · Unlike · 3
John ChapmanThe test to find the light best for your application is this: stand in a lighted area, or in a dark area with full illumination in between you and the target area, and illuminate into the deepest area into which you will need to see detail. If you can see detail, things are good. If not, you either need A) a better beam focus or B) more lumens. Unless you are dealing with patrol car overheads and spotlights, I bet your issue will be beam focus. If you work around patrol cars, you need a properly focused beam AND 1000 Lumens.
March 12 at 2:51pm · Unlike · 3
John ChapmanThe reflector is like the device on the end of the fire hose. You can mist or you can stream.
March 12 at 2:53pm · Unlike · 1
William Pettylike a pee pee stream?
March 12 at 2:53pm · Unlike · 4
John ChapmanMaybe i should make one coherent post...
March 12 at 2:53pm · Like · 2
John ChapmanYes William, just like that
March 12 at 2:54pm · Like · 3
Rick YatesSo I'm the morning it goes left and at night it splits into 2 and twirls around itself..
March 12 at 2:55pm · Like
Rick YatesYes I should probably see a doctor...
March 12 at 2:56pm · Like · 1
John ChapmanAnd another thing... if you're concerned about blinding yourself with too many lumens, come take a CQB course. We will quickly show you the error in your methodology. Just sayin
March 12 at 2:56pm · Like · 2
John ChapmanSigh... my fault, I should know my audience.
March 12 at 2:57pm · Like · 1
Rick YatesWilliam started it Chappy..
March 12 at 2:58pm · Like · 1
Michael WeissI could benefit from a low light CQB class
March 12 at 2:58pm · Unlike · 1
Matt LandfairChappy is kinda close
March 12 at 2:58pm · Like
Rick YatesMe too Michael, only if there were a good instructor in my area... *cough Petty cough*
March 12 at 3:02pm · Like · 1
John ChapmanI'm putting one together for Boise this summer
March 12 at 3:03pm · Unlike · 2
William Pettygo to chappys.... ^^^
March 12 at 3:03pm · Like · 1
Rick YatesI've already been kicked out of a class that I've yet to attend.. Damn. Haha
March 12 at 3:04pm · Like · 1
William Pettynot at all brother... my time is tight and little time to run civi classes. all of the civi classes (4) this year are vcqb.
March 12 at 3:05pm · Like · 1
Rick YatesYeah, one of those is on the to do list since I'm finally knocking out one of Cowans classes next month
March 12 at 3:07pm · Like · 1
John ChapmanSame boat William. I think I'm only doing 6 open courses this year. Oh well.
March 12 at 3:13pm · Like · 4
Matt LandfairNow that LMS is on the forum, I can help post their training both here and the forum.
March 12 at 3:24pm · Like · 2
Rick YatesWhat's the actual forum? I've only been on the FB version
March 12 at 3:30pm · Like
Matt Landfair Primaryandsecondary.com

Entry
Professional discussion of weapons, equipment, and training.
PRIMARYANDSECONDARY.COM
March 12 at 3:31pm · Like · 2 · Remove Preview
William Pettyfb version for life!
March 12 at 3:31pm · Like · 3
Rick YatesAwesome, thanks!
March 12 at 3:32pm · Unlike · 1
Matt Landfair William is missing out on a lot... poor guy
March 12 at 3:32pm · Like
Frank WoodsDid anyone stop and consider whether perhaps a person's eyesight and sensitivity to light might contribute towards how many lumens they prefer to have or not to have?

Before I get the finger pointed at me about how I'm gonna get people killed for spea...See More
March 12 at 3:33pm · Unlike · 3
Rick YatesDamn. That forum is FINALLY gonna have me download TapATalk
March 12 at 3:36pm · Like
Matt LandfairNo. I don't like tapatalk. I don't use it.
March 12 at 3:37pm · Like · 1
William David Guse John Chapman, do you mind if I share that 'lumens test'?
March 12 at 3:41pm · Like
Darin TalbotWhere's the phased plasma emitter in the 40watt range? . I'd like to get facemelting lumens too
March 12 at 3:52pm · Like · 2
John ChapmanPlease do William
March 12 at 4:13pm · Like · 3
Tore HaugliA few observations.

Lumens isn't really a good indicator of how effective a light is. Lumens is a value that states the total amount of light that is sent out from a source. We cannot determine lumens just by turning on a flashlight.

The light we see is lux, or the amount of lumens per square meter on the target, or beam intensity. This is how bright the light appears on a target.

A 200 Lumen light, with a very focused beam, can appear brighter than a 700 lumen light with a flooded beam.

The higher the lumen, the higher the lux at a given distance, with the same beam angle. If you double the lumen, you double the lux. If you want to keep the lux the same at given distance, you can widen the beam in order to spread out the lumens over a larger area.

The lux value is highest in the hot spot of the beam. The corona is a mostly uniform light area that surrounds the hotspot. Unfocused light outside the corona is called spill.

So, as someone stated above, the key to a good light has more to do with the design than a vague lumen rating; beam angle, reflector design etc.

There are some technological issues with increasing the max output on a light. Increasing the amperes on a PCB, for an LED light, will increase output, but comes at a cost:

-decreased battery life
-increased heat

The heat issue must be countered by adding something that will dissipate the heat, or you can fry the PCB.

Juicing up the lumens can be dangerous, depending the type of battery. CR123A lithium batteries can actually explode if the electric current is too high.

Be wary of this when looking at lights being marketed with ridiculously high lumen ratings, especially asian lights, as they generally do not counter the negatives of the increase in lumens.

Did I make it all the more confusing? Awesome
March 12 at 6:10pm · Unlike · 3
Matt Landfair Tore that is another forum post that will need to be stickied.
March 12 at 6:14pm · Like · 2
Carlos Lopez Tore Haugli, any recommendations on a good light with a high lux value since you seem to have a good grasp on this? Thanks!
March 12 at 9:21pm · Like
Matt LandfairHandheld or weapon light?
March 12 at 9:24pm · Like
Carlos LopezWeapon light. 1 for an AR and another for an mp9c
March 12 at 9:31pm · Like
Matt LandfairSurefire seem to be the most used option. X300U for both potentially. I run a Fury on my carbines.
March 12 at 9:33pm · Like · 1
Carlos LopezThanks for the tip. I'll look into them. New to customizing my firearms. I'm not an operator. Just a blossoming afficionado. Thank you.
March 12 at 9:34pm · Like
Tore HaugliThe Lux rating, though not often given, won't really tell you much either.

Most light manufacturers will offer light performance data per the ANSI FL1 standard....See More
March 13 at 4:09am · Unlike · 7
John ChapmanGood stuff Tore. Lumens is used because it's an easy marketing reference, and even most people in the flashlight business don't know much about the science involved. Bubba knows even less. So, "more lumens is mo better", said bubba.
March 13 at 10:53am · Unlike · 7
William David GuseSimilar in the performance clothing business. Who knows what a 'clo' is?
March 13 at 10:57am · Like
David Bahde John Chapman that was my point exactly. Its easy in this business, including the police tactical, and training business to get locked into simple catch phrases. It is a very sad (to me) result of marketing driving purchasing. It works, well in fact. ...See More
March 13 at 11:27am · Like · 1
Matt LandfairThat's why you want all the lumens.....
March 13 at 11:29am · Like
David BahdeHere ya go Matt, I expect to see it at the next class with Buck, all the lumens you need.

March 13 at 11:38am · Unlike · 2
Tore HaugliTiny Monster.....
March 13 at 11:43am · Like
David Bahde3500 lumens, a little duck tape and you are good to go!!
March 13 at 11:55am · Like
Roddy McCaskill Jr.Is that a light saber?
March 13 at 12:48pm · Like · 1
Matt Landfair Vaughn
March 13 at 2:14pm · Like
David BahdeI found a better one, the HellFighter 5, 4500 Lumens, only $4300.00 and even more duck tape! And its a surefire, so you know it will hold up.

March 13 at 4:44pm · Unlike · 3
Frank WoodsThat's almost $1/Lumen, damn panic buyers.
March 13 at 4:45pm · Like
Tyler MadoleWe have 4 Streamlight HL-3's at work. Our client refused to allow us anything real for self defense so this was my answer to the problem. 1100 lumens. It's bright enough that we can spotlight a suspect from half a block away effectively, even with the city lights. Never had a problem with them, and they have been used with a decently high success rate to break up bar fights.
March 13 at 4:52pm · Like

Can I have all the lumens?

Matt Landfair

Matt Six Actual