Black River Tactical Optimum Barrel (Garbage Rod)

agelewei

Newbie
Part 1 (a): 9/28/22 First Barrel
*(Note: The following is taken from emails to and from BRT and WO, corrections to spelling, grammar and other small mistakes were made but the content otherwise remains as it was delivered)

-I purchased the Black River Tactical Optimum 13.9 Barrel from Weapon Outfitters on 09/06/2022

-I purchased the BRT M4A1 Bolt from BRT on 09/06/2022

-I purchased a new Zev Wedgelock Barrel nut from Zev on 09/07/2022

-The barrel is installed on a SOLGW upper receiver with the new Wedgelock Barrel nut I ordered from Zev. The Upper was thermal fit to the barrel with a heat gun. With the barrel in my vice using soft vice jaws, I applied heat to the circumference of the upper receiver for approximately 90 seconds, and then attempted to slide the receiver onto the barrel though the receiver had not expanded enough. I then applied heat to the receiver for 60 more seconds and installed the receiver onto the barrel extension. For the Installation of the barrel, I used assembly grease on the barrel extension and the receiver threads.

-I took this picture of the crown prior to assembly.

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-Using a Geissele Reaction Rod, the barrel nut was installed and torqued to 65lb ft per the spec, using a torque wrench and Wedgelock Barrel Nut Wrench.

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-I installed a FCD Gas block and melonited mid length gas tube from Superlative Arms.

-I then installed a Surefire Closed Tine 556 Warcomp using the chamfered shim with the chamfer facing the shoulder of the barrel, 1 red shim, and 3 uncolored shims, which produced the following un-torqued timing:

-Following these instructions from Surefire

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-Torque to 20lb ft. which produced a satisfactory timing. Uninstalled the muzzle device, cleaned the treads and reinstalled with rocksett.

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-I installed the wedgelock handguard following the instructions from Triarc.

-The first time shooting with this barrel was 9/27/22. At 100 yards I first shot 20 rds of my 55gr reloads. I don't expect them to group under a minute, but on other rifles they have produced 1.5 minute groups. Using a range supplied stand and sand bag for forward support and my own Game Changer for rear support, I fired 20 rds, four, five rd groups from my rifle to zero, but the barrel wouldn't group, so I set it aside and let it cool down. I had 3 other rifles to test, 2 of which I was conducting a group and ladder test on. Using the same lot of IMI Razorecore 77SMK I would later try to group on the BRT barrel, I shot two .4 MOA groups out of a criterion 18" barrelled SPR with 600rds through, and my BCM 14.5 BFH, with over 5000 rds through. Given the fact this what as a public range, and my time was limited, I did not take pictures of my groups.

-After grouping my other guns, I went back to the 13.9 BRT, to refine my zero using the ammunition I intend for the gun to run normally. At 100 yards, I shot four, five rd groups of factory Fed LE223T3. Two groups with and two groups without the Surefire Mini 2 Suppressor. The group sizes were over 4 inches compared to the grid on the shoot-n-see targets I was using. (On other rifles, this loading produces roughly 1 minute groups. After seeing the barrel fail to group again, I shot another 20 rds of my 55 gr to see if the barrel required more break-in/seasoning, and set it aside to cool and zero another rifle.

-After about 30 minutes, I set up my Magneeto Speed V3 chronograph on my suppressor and installed it on my 13.9 BRT. My first 5 shots fired produced an ES of 150fps and 48 SD. My second 7 shot group produced a ES of 86 and an SD of 28. Seeing the ES and SD start to come down, I proceeded to attempt to group the IMI Razorcore I had previously fired through my two other rifles. The barrel again failed to group. The group size was greater than 4 inches at 100 yards.

-After discussion with Jaxon (Weapon Outfitters) and other knowledgeable individuals in the industry, I removed my muzzle device to inspect the device itself and the crown.

-The threads still have Rocksett residue but are otherwise appear in good shape. The muzzle device spins freely on and off. The Measurement internally from the shoulder to the inner port on the muzzle device is .845" and the threaded muzzle on the barrel measures .63", so no conflict there. The muzzle device does not interfere with the crown. There are no signs of strikes/contact on the interior of the device either.

-I also inspected my suppressor, no signs of baffles strikes.

-The following images are of a sample of cases fired from the barrel. The cases were from the LE223T3.

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-The mouth and neck of the case exhibit non-unifiorm damage and pock marks. All cases fired exhibit the pock marks and about 40% of the cases fired exhibit the pictured damage to the mouth of the case. All cases were cleaned in soap and water and dried over night prior to the photos being taken.

My next steps are testing the barrel without the muzzle device attached. I am going to shoot 2 groups of 5 rds ea. One with my own hand loads(77SMK, 24gr Ramshot Tac, CCI 41 SRP, 2.25 COAL and Fed head stamp, once fired brass) and one with IMI Razorecore. Both produce sub-half-minute groups in my other rifles. I will photograph the groups and supplement with that data/photos.

* (Note: I did shoot two groups, though both were with IMI Razor Core)
 

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agelewei

Newbie
Part 1 (b) 9/29/22

Following up with some more data points and photos of the groups I fired from the BRT 13.9 Optimum barrel and my BCM BFH 14.5.

As I indicated previously, I removed the muzzle device off of the barrel, and this morning I attempted to group the barrel again with a bare muzzle. I began the morning shooting a completely different rifle than the test rifles, so I was not cold on the BRT which I wanted to test. All 5.56 ammunition was from the same lot and same 20rd box of IMI Razor Core. The BCM produced a .44" group at 100 yards; the best group out of the BRT 13.9 was 1.7" at 100 yards.

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- At 8:00 AM the weather was 83F / 20% rh / 29.14 inHg, with a light 2mph breeze at 1:00-2:00 of DoF.

-At 8:15, on a fresh target, I setup to group the 13.9 BRT Optimum. The weather had not changed. I shot two, 5 rd groups on the same target, at slightly different POA.

-BRT 13.9 Group 1, Cold Bore: 1.70" at 100 yds
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-BRT 13.9 Group 2: 1.77" a 100 yds

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-After completing the group test on the BRT I then setup to group the IMI Razor Core in my BCM BFH 14.5

-The BCM 14.5 produced the following groups at 100 yds. Velocity was 2647fps avg, with an SD of 17.9, ES 47.

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-No change in weather

-BCM 14.5 Group 1, Cold bore: .74" at 100 yds
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-BCM 14.5 Group 2: .44" at 100 yds
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As a final data point:
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-The avg case length of the IMI Brass fired out of the BRT 13.9 is 1.761" / Max 1.7645”

-The avg case length of the IMI Brass fired out of my BCM 14.5 is 1.752". / Max 1.7575”

* (Note: 1.76 is SAAMI Spec)

At this point I am convinced the barrel is defective, which prevents it from grouping. Arguably the groups did improve by removing the muzzle device, but that is an unreasonable expectation to have a rifle with a barrel that cannot accept a muzzle device, in order to shoot moderately accurately with match grade ammunition. At minimum I want a new barrel that meets the expectations of sub-moa accuracy. I would also like to be compensated for the $150+ worth of ammunition I trashed down this garbage rod. I was really excited about this barrel; I truly hope this is a one off and not the norm.

One consolation, its nicely gassed.
 

agelewei

Newbie
On 9/30/22 I received the following message from BRT:

Hi [Redacted],

Thanks for contacting us and providing a very detailed account of your work.

It appears all other variables have been addressed, so we're going to have Weapon Outfitters send a replacement barrel right out to you.

We'll also send you a return label for the original barrel.

Send the original barrel back whenever you get everything swapped over

We'll inspect it to help determine the cause of the issue.

Thanks,

The Black River Tactical Team

Reply from me to BRT/WO: 9/30/22

Hello,

Thank you for moving forward to replace the barrel. Should the bolt also be replaced or would that not have any affect?

Thanks,

[Redacted]

(No response from BRT)



Addendum 10/1/22 (After receiving a bore scope)


-The crown has tool marks all over
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-The gas port has burs

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agelewei

Newbie
Part 2: 10/6/22 Second Barrel


Expecting to receive the replacement barrel that day, I reached back out to BRT regarding a return label as follow up to my previously unanswered questions on 9/30/22. A few hours later, having received the barrel I proceeded to inspect the bore with a scope, given my prior experience with their first barrel and not wanting to waste ammo again.


Email messages to BRT/WO: 10/6/22 / 11:05AM


Greetings,

I expect to receive the replacement barrel today via UPS. I have not received a return label from Black River Tactical to send the defective barrel back. Should I expect to keep it or return it?

[Redacted]


(10/6/22 / 3:53PM)

Make that a return label for two barrels, my money back and reimbursement for the ammo I wasted. This is unacceptable.

[Redacted]

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Reply from BRT: 10/6/22 5:29PM


Hi [Redacted],


Those barrels are obviously not up to our standards.

We are investigating to identify and correct the root cause.

Attached is the return label for both barrels.

Weapon Outfitters will refund your original purchase.

We'd like to offer you $150 credit in the BRT web store for your trouble.


Thanks,

The Black River Tactical Team


Reply from me to BRT/WO: 10/7/22 1:39PM


Thank you for the offer but no thank you. There is nothing I want to purchase from BRT.

I am concerned with your QC practices across the board. I've ordered gas tubes before and received the wrong port diameter, and blocks with missing set screws... and very slow responses to customer service inquiries. I also ordered a bolt for your barrel, which I intend to return. (order #[Redacted])

At the end of the day, I really wanted this barrel to meet the high expectations that have been set for it but given the lack of record and my own anecdotal experiences, I have no reason to believe that a perfect specimen will not develop issues later on that are beyond the view of an inspection scope and gauges. A credit in the form of an Amazon gift card or similar would suffice.

I am happy to include the bolt in the package with the barrels, so if you would please email me an RMA (for order # [Redacted] on 9/6/22, from this same email) minus a return shipping label I would appreciate it.

[Redacted]


Reply from BRT: 10/7/22 3:00PM



Hi [Redacted]


You may include the bolt in the return package with the barrels using the same label.

This email will server as the RMA.

We'll credit order [Redacted] when it's received.


Thanks,

The Black River Tactical Team


- - (I returned the barrels and bolt on 10/7/22 via USPS label BRT provided me)

- - - That is the end of the correspondence with BRT
 

agelewei

Newbie
Additional photos of the replacement barrel:

I am still waiting for the refunds from WO and BRT as of 10/10/22. USPS attempted delivery of the barrels/bolt today (10/10/22), business closed.

I will happily accept another BRT Optimum 13.9 barrel to evaluate and update this record. I am never buying anything to Black River Tactical again, henceforth known as Black Creek Arsenal.

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Curly Bill
 

agelewei

Newbie
WO has refunded me for the barrel. That was never in doubt though, they have been an advocate all the way through. Appreciate you guys.
 

Pat Tarrant

Custom testicles
Staff member
Moderator
I haven't had any experiences with BRT, but it certainly seems that they had an issue going on with your barrels, perhaps an entire batch of barrels. While it's frustrating that this was not caught by their manufacturing or QC people, it does seem that their service side didn't think twice about offering you a replacement barrel and a refund, and attempted to make it up to you with additional credit. Mistakes can happen in event he best companies, it's how they respond that really matters to me. I'd be interested to see if others have had similar experiences with their barrels or other parts. Thanks for the detailed write up.
 

agelewei

Newbie
WO was the retailer, I had zero concerns with their CS. They were very consistent and responsive. BRT however, were very difficult to contact. That’s been my experience previously as well. I think the minimum expectation should be a replacement, but when both barrels were defective, after having spent considerable money and time on the product, ammo and then the scope and gauges, I had had enough.

I was trying to be fair, and I want to be transparent with this review. I am open to critique and criticism. My expectations were met, not exceeded. I requested reimbursement because I thought that was fair in light of the complete lack of QC on not one, or two, but a batch of barrels. That seems negligent to me. But, again there was never a concern on my part that WO wouldn’t refund me.

WO has suspended the sale of their stock of BRT barrels while they investigate the issues. BRT has been very closeted, thus the presentation of these facts as objectively I can manage while being transparent about my requests and experience.

As far as the offer of $150 credit, they sell just a handful of products, a majority of which I’ve had issues with, followed on by long delays in CS response times. I had no need nor desire for their products beyond my prior experience. Thus I declined their offer.

I haven't had any experiences with BRT, but it certainly seems that they had an issue going on with your barrels, perhaps an entire batch of barrels. While it's frustrating that this was not caught by their manufacturing or QC people, it does seem that their service side didn't think twice about offering you a replacement barrel and a refund, and attempted to make it up to you with additional credit. Mistakes can happen in event he best companies, it's how they respond that really matters to me. I'd be interested to see if others have had similar experiences with their barrels or other parts. Thanks for the detailed write up.
 

agelewei

Newbie
I don’t expect anything more from BRT. They have satisfied everything I think should be expected of them, sans better QC. I’m dismayed that their reputation and products did not meet the expectations that were set for it, because on paper, that barrel was exactly what I wanted. Some transparency would be nice, but I have zero expectation of that.
 
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