Back Up Irons

TheTick

Member
Do backup irons return to zero? If so, probably worth having a set zeroed and handy.

Remove while running a lpvo and install when using a rds.

You could never trust it, especially if you needed to make any type of distance shot. I’ve gotten away doing that with my PRO (rang steel, took it off, punted it, put it back on and rang steel to make a point). But, I don’t think you could get away doing it with BUIS.
 

Chinny

Not Chubby
I deployed 3x just as a regular grunt in the Marines. 2/3 of those deployments we had back up rears from KAC. 0/3 times did we ever pull off our ACOG's to zero the irons. I asked across the battalion, never found anyone that even used the irons to zero. Not quite the same as what was asked, but love how the Marine Corps just figured they could slap the rears on there and check that box. They weren't serialized for a long time, probably why there's so many out there on tacswap and other sites now.
 

shoobe01

Established
...If you have an ACOG with built in Irons, it's less of an issue...

Good point: Most any BUIS will do for most situations. When I ran an ACOG, I practiced with the irons occasionally. I was GTG to about 50 yards, 100 if I took my time. Yes, with those coarse things and the tiny sight radius. Not a real sight replacement, but enough to get you out of trouble, probably.
 

Longinvs

Regular Member
Quantified Performance
I deployed 3x just as a regular grunt in the Marines. 2/3 of those deployments we had back up rears from KAC. 0/3 times did we ever pull off our ACOG's to zero the irons. I asked across the battalion, never found anyone that even used the irons to zero. Not quite the same as what was asked, but love how the Marine Corps just figured they could slap the rears on there and check that box. They weren't serialized for a long time, probably why there's so many out there on tacswap and other sites now.
I had a similar experience. I had dudes that asked me what the thing under their RCO was because no one every mentions the irons. They were just another piece of SL-3 to sign for.
 

Sunshine_Shooter

Established
My friend had this happen to him at Desert Brutality. Drove 20 hours and spent hundreds of $$$ just to have his red dot mount come loose on day 1. He flipped his irons up to finish Day 1 and used them to re-zero his dot when we got back to the hotel. He also ended up finishing ahead of me, so it didn't affect him too much. This is a legitimate use for irons, in my opinion. Not because an optic or even a battery will fail, but because a mount can come loose and irons are a good way to get a rough zero in a hurry when it matters.
 

WAVandal

Regular Member
I have back-ups on my duty rifle and spare batteries for the PRO in my patrol bag. Murphy's Law is a thing. I always check it before walking out the door to my car and have found it dead once. Glad I checked, but had I been running out to my car due to something in-progress my BUISs would be there for me.
 

Payback

Newbie
As mentioned in the OP, BUIS cost and weigh little. Since Mister Murphy has jumped into my cargo pocket a time or two and picked some inopportune moments to make his presence known by fucking me over, thankfully never in a case where I lost an optic and had to swap to irons but I imagine that would be an unhappy face day. To sum up my stance here, I will take a quote from the mighty fine Pat Mac when he says "... Only and enabler, never a disabler." I always have zeroed and co-witnessed iron sights on my ARs, but I'm old and a creature of habit.

Personal experience, I've only ever had students or fellow shooters in classes encounter issues with optics and need to utilize Irons to finish up. So, for the training junkies out there I always recommend multiple sighting systems so you don't potentially wind up wasting time, ammo, and money on a class where you shoot degraded or not at all. That's classroom and square range life, never had it happen on deployment or have it happen to anybody I know personally on deployment.

Now, I'm not a purist either. I understand that "rail estate" comes at a premium and that when running a light, a laser, and an optic something doesn't make the cut. Totally cool in my book, 2 independent sighting systems and a white light for PID answers the mail in my book.

Case in point, the One Man National Asset:
OMNAP&S.png
 

rcbusmc

Newbie
So..... I'm the company GySgt for a USMC rifle company that is currently deployed. I've got several guys in all three of my rifle platoons rolling on KAC BUIS as primary sights right now because their SDO'S or M7 RCO's have gone WIR and we don't have replacements available for them yet..... On my personal rifles it's a 50/50 split as to wether or not they have buis... On the work guns.... Yeah they all have them, just due to our logistics not being able to quickly replace broken shit, and believe me, infantry Marines prove capable of breaking everything they are issued in new and interesting ways....
 

rcbusmc

Newbie
So..... I'm the company GySgt for a USMC rifle company that is currently deployed. I've got several guys in all three of my rifle platoons rolling on KAC BUIS as primary sights right now because their SDO'S or M7 RCO's have gone WIR and we don't have replacements available for them yet..... On my personal rifles it's a 50/50 split as to wether or not they have buis... On the work guns.... Yeah they all have them, just due to our logistics not being able to quickly replace broken shit, and believe me, infantry Marines prove capable of breaking everything they are issued in new and interesting ways....
... Also to add. If your company gunny didn't make the company zero the irons on your zero ranges then he is either lazy or a dude who is putting F on his FitRep.....
 
Batteries fail, temperatures effect battery life. From work experience the aimpoint pro battery life wasn't tested in freezing temps. We aren't getting the same battery life they are advertising here in the mid Atlantic.
 
An agency nearby (I'll keep specifics to a minimum) had a shooting where the dot/reticle failed (not sure of the sight) and they had no BUIS. BUIS in a duty setting are a must for sure. There were ACOGs shot/smashed while abroad and a quick movement to cover to unscrew it, then transition to irons got the gun back in the fight. It's a small addition that can yield lifesaving results. No, I wouldn't personally recommend taking the optic off, so co-witness is preferred.
 

spectrain

Newbie
Bottom line, everything breaks. Literally everything. Trijicon, aimpoint, eotech, whatever your favorite "tank" optic is, I've probably seen them crap out in a class. The lack of stories of dudes using backup sights in gunfights isn't because optics never fail, its because gunfights involving well trained individuals with well setup carbines are relatively rare, and most of those that do happen are by dudes with teams (and/or sidearms). As has been stated already having some kind of backup sighting system is cheap insurance. Whether its irons, an offset optic, a lazer, whatever. But for me personally I'd rather have something.
 

AZ_Rifleman

Amateur
An IED blew some greasy substance like mud and some human liquified debris that made my CQO useless as it was obscured and wouldn't clean off. Un torqued the knob to the M68 comp4 and dropped it my right side cargo pocket, popped the Matech BUIS, and was back in action.

People can hate on the BUIS and irons all they want but until the day comes where what happened to me happens upon them too, then they can talk and we'll see if they'll still have that BUIS derangement.
 
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