Back Up Irons

#21
Do backup irons return to zero? If so, probably worth having a set zeroed and handy.

Remove while running a lpvo and install when using a rds.
You could never trust it, especially if you needed to make any type of distance shot. I’ve gotten away doing that with my PRO (rang steel, took it off, punted it, put it back on and rang steel to make a point). But, I don’t think you could get away doing it with BUIS.
 
#22
I deployed 3x just as a regular grunt in the Marines. 2/3 of those deployments we had back up rears from KAC. 0/3 times did we ever pull off our ACOG's to zero the irons. I asked across the battalion, never found anyone that even used the irons to zero. Not quite the same as what was asked, but love how the Marine Corps just figured they could slap the rears on there and check that box. They weren't serialized for a long time, probably why there's so many out there on tacswap and other sites now.
 
#23
...If you have an ACOG with built in Irons, it's less of an issue...
Good point: Most any BUIS will do for most situations. When I ran an ACOG, I practiced with the irons occasionally. I was GTG to about 50 yards, 100 if I took my time. Yes, with those coarse things and the tiny sight radius. Not a real sight replacement, but enough to get you out of trouble, probably.
 
#24
I deployed 3x just as a regular grunt in the Marines. 2/3 of those deployments we had back up rears from KAC. 0/3 times did we ever pull off our ACOG's to zero the irons. I asked across the battalion, never found anyone that even used the irons to zero. Not quite the same as what was asked, but love how the Marine Corps just figured they could slap the rears on there and check that box. They weren't serialized for a long time, probably why there's so many out there on tacswap and other sites now.
I had a similar experience. I had dudes that asked me what the thing under their RCO was because no one every mentions the irons. They were just another piece of SL-3 to sign for.
 

Sunshine_Shooter

Regular Member
Network Support I
#25
My friend had this happen to him at Desert Brutality. Drove 20 hours and spent hundreds of $$$ just to have his red dot mount come loose on day 1. He flipped his irons up to finish Day 1 and used them to re-zero his dot when we got back to the hotel. He also ended up finishing ahead of me, so it didn't affect him too much. This is a legitimate use for irons, in my opinion. Not because an optic or even a battery will fail, but because a mount can come loose and irons are a good way to get a rough zero in a hurry when it matters.
 
#26
I have back-ups on my duty rifle and spare batteries for the PRO in my patrol bag. Murphy's Law is a thing. I always check it before walking out the door to my car and have found it dead once. Glad I checked, but had I been running out to my car due to something in-progress my BUISs would be there for me.
 
#27
As mentioned in the OP, BUIS cost and weigh little. Since Mister Murphy has jumped into my cargo pocket a time or two and picked some inopportune moments to make his presence known by fucking me over, thankfully never in a case where I lost an optic and had to swap to irons but I imagine that would be an unhappy face day. To sum up my stance here, I will take a quote from the mighty fine Pat Mac when he says "... Only and enabler, never a disabler." I always have zeroed and co-witnessed iron sights on my ARs, but I'm old and a creature of habit.

Personal experience, I've only ever had students or fellow shooters in classes encounter issues with optics and need to utilize Irons to finish up. So, for the training junkies out there I always recommend multiple sighting systems so you don't potentially wind up wasting time, ammo, and money on a class where you shoot degraded or not at all. That's classroom and square range life, never had it happen on deployment or have it happen to anybody I know personally on deployment.

Now, I'm not a purist either. I understand that "rail estate" comes at a premium and that when running a light, a laser, and an optic something doesn't make the cut. Totally cool in my book, 2 independent sighting systems and a white light for PID answers the mail in my book.

Case in point, the One Man National Asset:
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