Back country kit

Bill Blowers

Sausage Six Actual
VIP
Manhunt takes you deep into the back country. Any other supplies going with you in addition to IFAK?

Leisure time backpacking anything different?
 

Lane C

Rico and the Man
Staff member
Moderator
BC_WFR_kit.JPG
This sits in a backpack. It is separate from an IFAK. IFAKs are for keeping blood going around and around, air going in and out. A lot of gear has multi-use. This is the minimalist approach along with other team members carrying the same thing or at a minimum a ace wrap, tri-bandage and safety pin.

What will your barrel chested freedom fighters experience once they step off of pavement? The top 4 I have seen is blisters, strains/sprains, lacerations and dehydration.

Blisters - If guys are not prepared or aware of how their feet get worked in the "off-road" mode you will need to be vigilant about blisters. Guaranteed you will get a type A person with a hot-spot that will ignore it. Or use non-wicking socks or cool guys footwear that looks great in the barracks but sucks in the woods. I decant "tincture of benzoine" into a recycled dropper type bottle such as contact cleaner solution. This has been the best method for preventing a sticky blow-out in the kit bag and it also make it easy to apply for securing tape. I use paper tape over the blister site. TB the shit out of the area and then cover with Tensoplast or equivalent stretch tape to make guys mobile again.

strains, sprains and breaks - Tri bandages and ace bandages are great for immobilizing these injuries. You can make additional bandages from shirts, etc. The safety pins is awesome for using existing clothing to secure injures. tri-bandages have many uses and i buy them in bulk cause i will trash then in a heartbeat in a wilderness context.

Lacerations - The ziplock or 10cc syringe work great to create pressure to clean wounds. In a wilderness context just use potable water to irrigate. Duct tape wrapped around an old hotel key card, paper tape, steristrips, etc work well as wound closures. Again benzoine helps anchor the tape to the skin. 4x4 gauze can be cut to size for wounds. I keep an additional small roller gauze in my IFAK that is not shown here for wound packing.

dehydration - I like using the aquamira brand 2 parts drops for fast water treatment. Prevent guys from getting dehydrated, etc.

Leatherman Micra is great for cutting gauze, tape, etc. it also has tweezers and a file. OTC pain meds are great to have onhand.
 
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Bill Blowers

Sausage Six Actual
VIP
Good stuff Lane. I have most of the stuff you show already in the pack. Although I carry a filter in lieu of drops. If I'm doing something for the job, I will have comms (usually) and Helo support attached to the radio. Probably more than enough stuff listed to manage most things with IFAK.

Back country packing, not so much. Anybody carrying sutures and shit?
 

KMo1205

Member
I do a lot of weekend backpacking trips on the Appalachian trail, where you are in the backwoods for days on end. I like to carry a couple of anti-histamines for anything that starts to itch, electrolyte tablets to add to water if you are out for a longer than expected time and working hard, and chapstick, which can be used for a number of different things. Other than that, my kit looks very similar.

Sawyer squeeze filter is my go to water purifier, but I also carry the drops as a backup or if the water source is not from a spring.

I don't carry sutures, not brave enough for that. Besides if you can't clean it properly, I've heard you can seal in a lot of bacteria and stuff that will just compound the problem.
 

Lane C

Rico and the Man
Staff member
Moderator
@Bill Blowers Here are some of my thoughts. It may start to drift from the original post and where you were the originator of the post, it might be beneficial to start a broader Wilderness Operations thread.

Ounces turn into pounds. Pounds turn into massive weight. So the overall package of what a person takes in the backcountry can really add up. So I shave anywhere that I can to reduce weight without compromising durably/reliability.

re: filters - I have had and watched them break or malfunction. I finally after decades went to purifying or boiling cause it was lightweight and reliable. Just my preference. @KMo1205 I have had 2x experiences from BP partners that had the Sawyer squeeze bladder blow out. Sawyer stood behind the product. Just wondering what your experience has been with he product. I get that all things break.

re: sutures. I don't carry a kit for 3 reasons. 1) I'm not trained for that skill. 2) In the wilderness I doubt I can ensure a sanitary environment for complete closure of a wound. 3) I get more multi-purpose use out of tape so I stick with it, no pun intended.

re; helos and comms. I have been left in remote areas and then had helos called off or grounded due to hours/weather. So, I make sure that I roll with a 24-72 hours lightweight kit for sustainment. Yup, I have hiked out plenty of times. The area that we deploy is varied. It can be lakes, swamps, above timberline, valley/mountain ridges, slot canyons, high desert and thick woods. Based on the region of the state I could be on VHF or 800mhz comms. I have been in areas where comms is a no-go for hours based on the search area. I tell the guys to be a solution to a problem, not a problem in the solution.

This is a great topic. Most tac teams or LE don't even consider the additional potential risk, problems and logistics that go into sending the boys into the woods.

Cheers
 

EKinOR

Amateur
Vendor
Back country packing, not so much. Anybody carrying sutures and shit?

If the wound is deep enough for sutures, you really don't want to use sutures outside of a hospital setting. You're most likely sealing in things that will cause an infection. It's generally best to leave a wound open and covered with a clean bandage until you can get to somewhere to have it properly cleaned. If you need to close a wound temporarily, just use tape or butterfly bandages.
 

Bill Blowers

Sausage Six Actual
VIP
Maybe a little drift, but I think it's in a good way. Primarily wondering if anyone was carrying and/or doing anything different for wilderness medicine. Mainly linked to work issues, but a lot of this stuff carries over to fun trips as well.

I'm down with every ounce counts, particularly at elevation. I've never had a problem with water filers, but I replace filters every year. Cheap insurance. I assume you are boiling off some kind of stove? Getting shit on fire can be problematic sometimes here in the rainy NW

My team is woefully unprepared for this mission. We had an uptick in training for it due to an incident, then support fell off since we haven't had an incident since. As a result we will all die of exposure before any bad guy could get us.
 

EKinOR

Amateur
Vendor
I'm a certified Wilderness First Responder (WFR). It's good training and if you are going to spend any time in the backcountry, it's worth it. I took my training through Wilderness Medical Associates.
 

KMo1205

Member
@Bill Blowers

re: filters - I have had and watched them break or malfunction. I finally after decades went to purifying or boiling cause it was lightweight and reliable. Just my preference. @KMo1205 I have had 2x experiences from BP partners that had the Sawyer squeeze bladder blow out. Sawyer stood behind the product. Just wondering what your experience has been with he product. I get that all things break.

I've had good experience with them. Much lighter weight than pump filters and take up far less room in a pack. Most of the problems I've seen with them are from people squeezing the bag to hard. I don't think that was your issue, but that's most peoples' problems. I actually have a QD from my Camelbak. Most of the time I don't even squeeze, I just leave it filtering by holding the bag higher than the filter into my pack/ Camelbak.

I highly recommend using Aquamaria two step drops on any water sources not from a spring. Or boiling is best, but takes a lot more work or equipment.
 

KMo1205

Member
There are two things I always carry in the woods as part of a backwoods kit: ASE survival kit and a fire kit. The ASE survival kit is an all encompassing survival kit that has a lot of well thought out tools in a very light and compact package. Someone could certainly make one better for themselves, but its a great place to start. http://www.adventuresurvivalequipment.com/military-pocket-survival-tin.html.

I also have a home made fire kit with waterproof matches, a magnesium fire starter, and a couple of different fire starters like petroleum jelly cotton balls.

But its important to practice and use these tools, not just carry them.
 

M Atwood

Newbie
Vendor
One of the things I think it's important to think of is that that basic survival/bushcraft skills are medical skills: They are all about maintaining homeostasis. To that end, I think a “survival kit” (and the skill to use it) is integral to the backcountry medical kit.

There's three ways to approach this that I see:
-The minimalist way; Survival tins, small pouches, wallet/pocket kits. These are all powerful and valuable tools, but they also require a dedication to learning and maintaining skills, and they require more/harder work on the part of the “survivor”.
-The maximalist: Large, heavy, survival “kits”, that dominate whole packs, or at least large sections of them. Many tools and a lot of potential, but heavy, slow and detrimental to carrying other things/executing the mission (and often a compensation for a lack of skill).
-Somewhere in the middle: This is my preference. I prefer a medium light survival kit, in a 1 or 2 liter dry sack, that gives me some more powerful tools (like a shelter component that can serve as casualty packaging as well) that save my time and energy for other tasks, and don't require as much specialization and routine skill maintenance as the “survival tin” type or bushcrafters mini-kits. Not because I don't do the routine maintenance (I teach the shit, so I kind of have to), but a lot of people can't.

I spend a lot of time out in the boonies, for life, pleasure, and work: I hike and explore, I teach in the field, I have property 35 miles from a paved road, and I do work for remote ranches in similar and more extreme removes from civilization. Accordingly, there is always more gear in the vehicle, but my approach for on body and in pack gear is as follows:

On my Person:
There's always the pocket blowout kit (SOFTT Wide, Combat Gauze, Pressure Dressing, tape, gloves), unless using a CLEER MBOK on my belt, with a SOFTT-W in my hip pocket.
A Bic lighter is almost always in my pocket. An Exotac ferro rod, couple of TinderQuik tabs (the best IME), button compass, SAR Eclipse signal mirror, and some kevlar line are always in a pocket in my wallet. Often wear a wrist compass as well. My daily carry folder (BM 810) was largely selected for bushcraft/survival performance.
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Often, I will throw a small booboo-kit in my pocket. It lives in my FAK for my pack, but it's easy to open it up, grab the module and stuff it into a pocket. Often alongside a triangular bandage, because triangular bandage.


In my pack:
Survival Kit of varying scale, depending on where I am and what I'm doing. Typically packed in a 2L dry-sack. Right now the contents are: Paracord, signal kit (aviators panel and small mirror in a lined pouch), couple of fusees, backup headlamp, backup water kit (1liter whirlpak bag, and 3 days or so worth of tabs), lensatic compass, an AMK heavy duty survival blanket, and a selection of SnapLights (3 12-hour, and 2 30-minute). Often, there's a small tin with a few more TinderQuik tabs, a SOLKOA FastFire, a bit of fatwood, and some lifeboat matches and striker, that'll go in there as well.
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MoraKniv Companion heavy duty (or something sexier if I am feeling frisky. I've got a lot of knives, but keep coming back to a good Mora for working/bushcraft/survival).
Leatherman/GerbilTool/some form of quality multitool.
I carry a Katadyn Vario filter, typically. Not so many streams and creeks, but there's lots of stock ponds and tanks in this part of the world.
A little heavy? Yes. But fuck it, a lot of it makes my life significantly easier if I need it. If weight is a serious concern, I maintain the skill to scale back to a SUMA container size kit, or a tin sized kit, and get by on the little water pouch and a straw type filter. I just prefer not to.

Med Kit: Packed into an Eagle Creek PackIt Quarter-Cube, in Red. Gloves, Duct Tape fold, Triangular Bandages (2x), H&H Compressed Gauze, WoundStop (mini-Israeli/Emergency Bandage) trauma dressing, SWAT-T, CeraLyte rehydration mix, baggie with meds and topicals (loperimide, diphenhydramine [capsules not tablets, makes it easier to make a topic with], tylenol, motrin, aspirin, neomycin ointment, burn ointment, sting ointment), betadyne swabs, and a small FAK module with gauze pads, BZK wipes, assorted band-aids, skin glue, butterflies, and a little more tape. Not in the pic because I'm stupid, but also in the Cube, is an AMK “Blister Medic” pack.
I usually shove a SAM Splint down alongside my hydration bladder in my pack.
During warmer weather, I also typically carry a Pressure Immobilization kit for snakebites: 3 ace wraps, BZK wipe, marker, gauze pad, triangular bandage. (Excuse the potential self promotion. No one else in the US makes a PIT kit, and I'm not gonna order one all the way from Australia.)
Glock 17 mag for size comparison.
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Everything is essentially modular; It's easy to move the macro-modules from pack to pack, depending if I'm using a full pack, or something smaller. Same for the micro-modules within each, that can be pulled out to pocket or distribute differently in gear. I've found this to be important when it comes to making backcountry gear readily available no matter what pack I'm using. I try to get students to embrace modular kitting, as well as the guys I regularly hike/explore/work with.

Just my take that I wanted to share.
 

M Atwood

Newbie
Vendor
Oh, two more notes:

I think the most important concept I ever learned about packing first aid kits, is to imagine the ailment/injury and pack for it. What's the environment, what are the risks, what is likely? Start from there.

Secondly; I teach a class on wilderness survival medicine. If any of you guys are WORKING in the backcountry, and don't feel up to speed on this, or want something to share with your team(s), PM me and I'll give you the .pdf of my student handout (50 pages, simple, dovetails into tac med, focused on the weapons bearing environment). Don't be a scammin' ass, please. But I'll share with those with legit need.
 
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