Astigmatism and Optics

Low_Speed_Notper8or

Regular Member
Hey everyone, Im rather new here and I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

For the past 5 years since I graduated high school, I have been using as a rifle a Polish Underfolder AK which works great but is sort of slow with the AK iron sights and the recoil of 7.62x39

I want to move to either a 20 inch AR or a AK-74(That could be another thread) and run some kind of optic. However shooting with a friend of mine I found I have some pretty good astigmatism and even with his really nice 2moa Aimpoint I have that "bursting star" effect.

So what instead would be a good alternative? A 1-4x variable scope? Somewhat told me about prismatic sights, are those just 1x powered scopes or something different and does anyone have any experience on this? Something else? TBH if my only options are fixed eyebox scopes I know the more high speed guys might cringe at this but for 100 yards and in honestly I might just run around with the large aperture on a m16a2 carry handle rear sight and add a variable for identifying and shooting things at longer range.

And I guess to really give you guys the full information, I am not a military or LEO guy, this is more just a general purpose rifle to shoot in 2gun or 3 gun, maybe take a course with and to keep in my house in case anything happens to have a modern rifle. Knowing that I want to focus on shooting from close range to the end of a 200-250 battle zero and im probably going to be using either 5.45 ammo or m193 55 grain 556 so I guess take that into account
 

Low_Speed_Notper8or

Regular Member
Never mind, I actually have shot a Vortex spitfire 1x and its pretty solid at least from shooting it on the range and in a mock 3 gun stage.
 

Sophie

Newbie
This is a good topic. I didn't know I had astigmatism until I acquired an Aimpoint and saw the varying red dot configurations of an "S" or little dipper configuration. It took awhile to determine that astigmatism was the root cause, but now, what are the alternatives.

Will the red dot in a LPVO also star burst?
 

user12358

Regular Member
Will the red dot in a LPVO also star burst?

While everyone's eyes are different, the general rule for astigmatism is that etched reticles like in LPVOs or prism scopes will not have the same problems that projected dots present. That being said, a LPVO red dot can star burst slightly in a uniform manner when turned up too bright but this happens with any light source and does not cause the dot to appear deformed like a projected red dot does.
 

Nowski

Member
So as a guy with terrible astigmatism I have use all three of these systems and I have settled on using a red dot for the HD work. While the prism sights don't bloom as bad when the brightness gets cranked up on them they will bloom just as bad, also most use a 1 MOA dot or smaller which I have a hard time seeing as well. The LPVO is better than the prism ad is great for extended ranges but if I'm working room-100 yards or so I didn't want to deal with the weight or the lack of true 1x. Now I will get another to put on my 16 inch gun and the dot will go from there to the 11.5 when it's done. As for the red dot I just got over the worry over the bloom, put the star, blob, grape cluster center mass and press the trigger, if I need to refine the dot more I look through my rear sight.

For what you are looking to do though since you mentioned 2 or 3 gun, I would go with and LPVO since it will work for the closed hoser courses of fire and you then can crank up the magnification for longer shots. Another bit of advice is if this is going to be a game/HD gun I would recommend a 16 inch gun or a 14.5 pin and weld. It will be easier to move through a house and still give you good velocity with the m193 and accuracy at distance.
 
If you have astigmatism and a dot blooms consistently every time you see it, you can use it as normal. Basically pick a point on the bloom as your index for zero/ fine aiming and use the entire blob for gross aiming.

Just got a G19 MOS slide from Big Tex Outdoors and mounted a Trijicon type 1 RM01. Sadly I just discovered I have an astigmatism. While the dot shape changes with lighting, I can usually pick out the solid dot within the starburst.

It's almost like an EOTech reticle but with light shading filling the space between the ring and the dot. I've also noticed that if I activate my X300 the starburst effect goes away and I get a nice round dot although it's harder to pick up (looks washed out).

Anyway, I was wondering if a smaller or larger dot would change anything. Would a small 1 MOA dot have a smaller starburst? Would having an adjustable LED with the brightness cranked all the way up appear "in focus"?
 

user12358

Regular Member
Would a small 1 MOA dot have a smaller starburst? Would having an adjustable LED with the brightness cranked all the way up appear "in focus"?

Smaller dots will give you a smaller starburst. Having the adjustable RMR with the brightness cranked all the way up will make the starburst worse. The reason that the starburst effect goes away with you activate the X300 is that the dot is now appropriately adjusted for the increased lighting conditions caused by the pistol light. If you turned down an adjustable RMR it would crisp up in the same way.
 

Nowski

Member
Give this a watch it helped me out a bunch.
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I wear glasses and have it. Didn't really pay attention to the bloom until recently. I run a SIG red dot and just turn down the power to the lowest visible setting possible for the given lighting conditions (and, if night time, adjust it to compensate for a Surefire's wash-out) to compensate.

It's a brain issue though. You might be able to adjust the settings and train through it, as I did. You might not. I would still, also, highly suggest a 1-4x or 1-6x LPVO with the option of an illuminated dot / reticle. But, that suggestion is based on a logistical issue for me. You can get some quality LPVOs at just over half of what an ACOG costs and not be strapped down to a single power setting. It allows more flexibility and gives me more access to PID on potential hostiles. So, it's a win-win-win -- for me, in my case, and in my opinion.
 

Bowers

Newbie
I’m probably gonna go against the grain here but I’ve had best success avoiding expensive and highly over-rated lpvo optics altogether. Seriously, there’s a laundry list of reasons they suck at any price point for me. If they work for you, that’s cool to.

I have astigmatism, not horrible, but enough to bloom the average 1 moa red dot to at least an ugly 3-5 moa. Cowitness irons help to sharpen the dot a bit if your running a simple rds and lack good rx.

My favorite solution is a 3, 3.5 or 4x trijicon acog with RMR. Low ounces, extrordinary durability, clarity that makes 4x feel like 8x, No throw lever bullshit, no heavy ass lpvo, no selling kidneys or first borns, no canted reticle/failing rings, just instant and natural transition from close to far, clarity/precision and speed to spare at any reasonable distance. I was taught to shoot over irons at close range when I was first introduced to the AR15 and shooting over the acog w the rmr is just as natural.
 
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