Appendix: IWB vs AIWB Holsters

[Gaz]

I am coming of age in about a week when Uncle Sam will approve of my carrying a concealed weapon. Since I take firearms and tactics as a personal hobby to the best of my ability, and being raised by a police officer I have a good amount of working knowledge with this sort of thing but very little experience.

Anyways, I wanted to get info from those who have a good amount of experience carrying a concealed pistol on what holster system you are using, particularly with an AIWB rig with attached magazine carrier vs carrying appendix with an IWB holster with a spare magazine stored elsewhere (definitions I will follow in this thread for discussion sake). Which is more efficient? More affordable? More effective? What are the benefits and downsides of the way you carry?

There are a lot of good holsters out there (referring particularly to well manufactured kydex retention holsters) and I don't want to waste my money on an initial uninformed purchase.

 

[JohnsonCityTN]

I've not got a TON of experience with aiwb, but I've dabbled.

It's one of those things where some people really like it, some don't. I'm definitely on the fence with it.

I use to have an incog for a g19 and I carried aiwb through my hellish commute in and out of Chicago. I came close to drawing on people on multiple occasions sitting in traffic and having shenanigans break out. I think the ease of drawing while sitting in a car is where IWB shines. Outside of that, I prefer strong side carry.

Either way, get a "claw" or wedge for whatever holster you choose.

The incog line, trex arms, and M3 tactical all make solid looking aiwb setups

 

[PatMcG]

I will never use a holster with built in mag carrier ever again. There's no versatility at all. I don't find them concealable at all. Even taking a piss with one, since there designed to be worn at 12:00, is a fucking nightmare.


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[PatMcG]

If your not using a wml the eidolon is a gift from god and worth every cent


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[Dr. Cornwallis]

I carry AIWB in a CCC Shaggy. Once I started carrying AIWB I never went back except for certain circumstances, such as when backpacking.

For me AIWB offers the best access, concealment and comfort. There is no other way I can carry a G19 in a t shirt.


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[Gaz]

I will never use a holster with built in mag carrier ever again. There's no versatility at all. I don't find them concealable at all. Even taking a piss with one, since there designed to be worn at 12:00, is a fucking nightmare.


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For arguments sake let's say there are some scenarios where you would want to carry 12 o'clock with an attached magazine, such as a long car ride or something. Would you say it's worth it to purchase a modular rig like Tier 1 Concealed's AGIS holster?

 

[PatMcG]

I guess I don't see an advantage to having the mag carrier attached. You can still carry a separate mag carrier in the same spot and also have the freedom to adjust placement where as with the all in one it is where it is.


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[nate89]

I started carrying about 6 years ago, and have been carrying Appendix for about 18 months. I tried an integrated holster/mag holder and didn't like it at all. I eventually went with the Armiger Solutions angled mag carrier. I have it at 1 o'clock (i'm a lefty), with the gun at 11. It allows for more movement, I can fine-tune the position of both irrespective of the other, and is overall much more versatile and comfortable.

 

[DocGKR]

As noted previously, I started out using AIWB carry some 30 years ago when faced with the need to carry a service pistol (at various times in my military career a 1911, M9, or M11) while wearing the Navy Service Dress Blue uniform--since the jacket is a double breasted type that could not be left unbuttoned, AIWB was the only option to allow easy access to the pistol. It also worked well with BDU/DCU uniforms when not wanting to appear armed, for example on MEDCAP's. Lou Alessi made us some holsters (APX-IWB), with a slight reverse FBI cant that worked very well for this option--the only potential downside of the Alessi holster was the plastic "Talon" clip that secured it to the belt--although to be honest none ever broke or caused any problems for us.

Likewise I have used AIWB for over a decade in the LE and civilian world, to carry 1911's, 3rd gen S&W's, Glocks, and most recently M&P's w/ambi-safeties. Each day I currently primarily use a JM Custom holster strong side in the 1 o'clock range. I have ZERO desire to use a holster with an integrated mag pouch for any type of belt carry.

Note that the pistols I have most frequently carried AIWB--1911's, Glocks, and M&P's are either striker fired or cocked and locked. There are NO problems if appropriate care and prudence is exercised while slowly re-holstering along with simultaneously tilting the holster AWAY from all critical anatomic areas that could be perforated or damaged if the pistol inadvertently discharges. Much like other endeavors requiring error free performance such as flying, deep scuba diving, rock climbing, and performing surgery--DON'T MAKE ANY MISTAKES when doing this!

When removing the pistol at the end of the day, take the entire holster off without removing the pistol; stick the holster with the pistol still safely in place into the safe of your choice--this completely eliminates the possibility of an ND.

 

[Gaz]

As noted previously, I started out using AIWB carry some 30 years ago when faced with the need to carry a service pistol (at various times in my military career a 1911, M9, or M11) while wearing the Navy Service Dress Blue uniform--since the jacket is a double breasted type that could not be left unbuttoned, AIWB was the only option to allow easy access to the pistol. It also worked well with BDU/DCU uniforms when not wanting to appear armed, for example on MEDCAP's. Lou Alessi made us some holsters (APX-IWB), with a slight reverse FBI cant that worked very well for this option--the only potential downside of the Alessi holster was the plastic "Talon" clip that secured it to the belt--although to be honest none ever broke or caused any problems for us.

Likewise I have used AIWB for over a decade in the LE and civilian world, to carry 1911's, 3rd gen S&W's, Glocks, and most recently M&P's w/ambi-safeties. Each day I currently primarily use a JM Custom holster strong side in the 1 o'clock range. I have ZERO desire to use a holster with an integrated mag pouch for any type of belt carry.

Note that the pistols I have most frequently carried AIWB--1911's, Glocks, and M&P's are either striker fired or cocked and locked. There are NO problems if appropriate care and prudence is exercised while slowly re-holstering along with simultaneously tilting the holster AWAY from all critical anatomic areas that could be perforated or damaged if the pistol inadvertently discharges. Much like other endeavors requiring error free performance such as flying, deep scuba diving, rock climbing, and performing surgery--DON'T MAKE ANY MISTAKES when doing this!

When removing the pistol at the end of the day, take the entire holster off without removing the pistol; stick the holster with the pistol still safely in place into the safe of your choice--this completely eliminates the possibility of an ND.

Looks like most of you voices of experience are on the same page, thanks for the info. When I can afford I would like to creat options for myself, however for now it seems there is a large consensus to run an un-attached spare mag. It has also been made apparent to me over my short years that a spare mag is a necessity. Looks like most of you carry a spare mag on appendix that's at a mirror location across the body centerline from where you carry your pistol.

Since you didn't mention it, Doc, I'm curious how you carry yours, and I'm also curious which holster by JM you recommend--they appear to have a variety of versions of each platform.

FYI- I'm a skinny dude

 

[DocGKR]

Spare mag typically at 9 o'clock in an OWB pouch.

This with solid loop and extra tuck: http://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/AIWB.html

 

[22Mike]

Looks like I'm the odd one out. I carry the INCOG with mag caddy. It works well for skinny/athletic builds without any extra baggage up front, because it will widen the profile of the bulge and make it less noticeable if that makes sense.
If you go INCOG with mag caddy you can always take the mag caddy off and run it separately. I tried that for a few days but having them together was actually more comfortable for me and gave me faster reloads due to the stability and consistency of the mag pouch.


12/5

 

[1776united]

Go jmck and never look back. I tried the sidecar and it looked like I stuck a phone book down my pants. It's a poor design for concealment.

Don't be deceived by all the insta famous guys talking about how fast the holster is. Fast is fast.


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[Gaz]

Go jmck and never look back. I tried the sidecar and it looked like I stuck a phone book down my pants. It's a poor design for concealment.

Don't be deceived by all the insta famous guys talking about how fast the holster is. Fast is fast.


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I differ to the fact that one has to trade concealability for accessibility and the inverse. I bought my wife Runcible Works YP Concealement System, great rig that conceals easily but you have to dig into yourself to get a proper grip.

For cost sake I think I'm going to start with separate components. I'll probably wait for the P320 incog and try that out in the future when I rebuild my disposable income.

 

[Beastmaster]

I second the eidolon. Just awesome and I can run either my 17 with RMR, 19 or 26 in it without having to change a thing to match my mood for the day.

I too prefer a separate magazine application. Some times I don't carry a spare mag sometimes I want it up front sometimes to the side, all in one solutions rarely pan out imo.

 

[IkeInTexas]

If I didn't carry with a WML, I'd be carrying in the Eidolon from RCS. It conceals perfectly and just plain works.

My current setup is a wannabe RS in a JMCK with foam wedge and Eidolon claw. It's by far the most concealable setup I've found. The claw is what really makes the difference for me being 6'0" 160lbs. It makes that G19 grip with OEM +2 completely disappear. Even in form fitting T-shirts. Whichever holster you end up going with, I'd highly recommend something with a claw. It makes a huge difference for me.

I carry a spare mag right about 11:45 in a PERSEC IWB carrier and I attached a foam wedge to that too. It's usually a Magpul 21rd mag or OEM 17rd mag with TTI +6. The foam wedge helps tuck the mag back towards my body.


As far as the attached mag caddy I have yet to see what is desirable about this setup. You're sticking a huge piece of plastic down your pants that cannot move independently of each other. Also, especially when a claw is added, you're creating stress points on the whole system and asking for premature failure. In my assessment it would make far more sense to have those pieces of gear separate from each other to allow yourself more mobility and comfort. I just don't see why everybody wants their mag married to their holster. It's beyond what my finite mind can fathom.


Ike

 

[Gaz]

If I didn't carry with a WML, I'd be carrying in the Eidolon from RCS. It conceals perfectly and just plain works.

My current setup is a wannabe RS in a JMCK with foam wedge and Eidolon claw. It's by far the most concealable setup I've found. The claw is what really makes the difference for me being 6'0" 160lbs. It makes that G19 grip with OEM +2 completely disappear. Even in form fitting T-shirts. Whichever holster you end up going with, I'd highly recommend something with a claw. It makes a huge difference for me.

I carry a spare mag right about 11:45 in a PERSEC IWB carrier and I attached a foam wedge to that too. It's usually a Magpul 21rd mag or OEM 17rd mag with TTI +6. The foam wedge helps tuck the mag back towards my body.


As far as the attached mag caddy I have yet to see what is desirable about this setup. You're sticking a huge piece of plastic down your pants that cannot move independently of each other. Also, especially when a claw is added, you're creating stress points on the whole system and asking for premature failure. In my assessment it would make far more sense to have those pieces of gear separate from each other to allow yourself more mobility and comfort. I just don't see why everybody wants their mag married to their holster. It's beyond what my finite mind can fathom.


Ike

Thanks for your reply, Ike. It appears we're of similar build, so I look forward to testing out what you've said. You mentioned you're packing an RS in a JMCK. Did you order that holster completely custom, or are you able to share a link with the model you have?

 

[IkeInTexas]

Thanks for your reply, Ike. It appears we're of similar build, so I look forward to testing out what you've said. You mentioned you're packing an RS in a JMCK. Did you order that holster completely custom, or are you able to share a link with the model you have?

Glad I could help! The one I have is actually the first that Tony ever did like that. He doesn't have them on the website or anything but if you email him and tell him you want the one like he made for Big Tex Outdoors, he'll know what to do.

@DocGKR is actually the one that turned me on to JM in the first place. I originally had Tony build one just like the one he made for Dr Roberts (except I had soft loops) and then about 6 months or so down the road I had him do another when I found out he started using the Raven Concealment Eidolon claws.

Here's the original DockGKR thread: https://primaryandsecondary.com/for...stol-with-x300u-light-attached.826/#post-6692


Here's a few pics I took when I first got it in...

 

[_teedubbz]

I just recently started carrying appendix (since November 2016). I'm a smaller build guy, about 135lbs and 5' 7", if that's relevant to you. I have experience with a few "do all" type holsters that really didn't fit the bill for appendix. And by do all, I mean holsters designed for multiple carry positions. In my experience, holsters designed for multiple positions don't work in any of them exceptionally well. But I really wanted to get appendix carry to work for me. I don't have experience with the Eidolon. But I think its track record speaks for itself. However, I opted to go with PHLster's new "Classic" holster because it's overall a slimmer package than the Eidolon with all of the features that make it effective molded right into the kydex. I like that it's minimal and simple. It comes in Glock 17 length only and I carry a G19. I have found that the G17 length actually makes the holster super comfortable and it gives it leverage to keep it tucked in for better concealment with the molded in wedge. It's one of the most well designed and made holsters I've ever owned. I do not like my spare magazine being ridden up front with my gun. With as skinny as I am, it just creates too much bulk up there. So I carry my spare magazine in a PHLster Skeleton Gen 2 magazine pouch on my weak side at about 8 O'clock.

There are a lot of really good appendix carry options out there. I personally would steer away from a holster with a built in mag carrier, but that's just my preference.

This is just my limited experience with appendix carry. But I couldn't be at all happier with the PHLster Classic. It does its job very well, it's simple, and it's competitively priced.

Before this PHLster setup I was running products from Raven Concealment. Not in appendix, but you really can't go wrong with a Raven product. PHLster and Raven have basically become my go-to holster companies until I find someone that does it better, for me personally.

https://www.phlster.com/product-page/g17-classic

 

[Dr. Cornwallis]

I recently acquired a JMCK AIWB mag pouch for my G19 and am very pleased. At first I was concerned with having too much shit stuffed in the front of my pants but honestly I don't even notice it there. It's comfortable, easy to access and conceals well.

Another plus to AIWB in general... because it works so well in all aspects, I literally find my self carrying my G19 and reload everywhere I go. Other modes of carry require me to dress around the firearm more, thus having to put on a button down or risk really obvious printing. It'd also absurdly convenient. My Shaggy and mag pouch both have the 1.5 kydex clips on them making it as easy to carry a gun as it is to put keys in my pocket. The only downside to the clip is that you loose some versatility in positioning. I used to use the split kydex loops and it was nice to be able to straddle the front belt loop on some pants.


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