Active Retention On a Conceal Holster

Matt Landfair

Matt Six Actual
Staff member
Administrator

Jimmy Holford
Yesterday at 5:53pm · Janesville, WI


I'm looking for a holster that will accommodate my g17/x300/rmr that has some active retention but is more concealable than the safariland. I sometimes go from low profile to overt kind of quickly and I don't feel like the open top Raven offers quite enough retention for my comfort level.

What is out there?


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  • Timothy Giblin likes this.

  • Matt Landfair
    Safariland is the only option I can think of that provides that retention.
    Yesterday at 6:01pm · Like · 3

  • Matt Levi
    Raven Phantom with a shirt over it or a Safariland ALS only (6395) on a direct belt mount. You really have to balance what is the primary need here. Concealment or Retention.

    I intermittently swap between the two mysefl.
    Yesterday at 6:02pm · Unlike · 4

  • Paul Hotaling
    Good question Jimmy, I was interested in asking the same question.
    Yesterday at 6:03pm · Edited · Unlike · 1

  • John Saling
    bravo has a retention holsterhttp://www.bravoconcealment.com/.../level-ii-rtt-holster

    Bravo Concealment · Level II Holster
    Bravo Concealment makes custom kydex holsters that are tough, durable, and lightweight. All gun holsters...
    BRAVOCONCEALMENT.COM
    Yesterday at 6:06pm · Like · Remove Preview

  • Tim Braginton
    LAG tactical has an OWB holster available with a blade tech hood assembly. More low pro than the safariland but still has active retention. Not listed on their site so you'll have to contact them. Or PM me
    Yesterday at 6:07pm · Like

  • Derek McIntosh
    Raven concealment can add retention strap at request
    Yesterday at 6:21pm · Unlike · 4

  • Weston Shoemaker
    Majority of kydex holster guys can make a holster with a thumb break. They usually go with Blade tech for the retention device.
    Yesterday at 6:50pm · Like

  • Matt Landfair
    I gotta point out - the ALS system is the gold standard of retention
    Yesterday at 6:58pm · Like · 3

  • Jimmy Holford
    Yes it is Matt and that is what I use for duty belt/swat stuff. It is not low profile enough for what I need though.
    Yesterday at 7:03pm · Unlike · 1

  • Michael Goerlich
    Jimmy- If you want concealment, buy a concealment holster. If you want to roll overtly, get a Safariland.

    Safariland currently makes the best active-retention holsters on the market, but nearly all of their concealment holsters --especially those that use the ALS-- leave a lot to be desired as far as concealment goes. There are ways to semi-quickly switch back and forth between an RCS holster and an ALS, but presently there is no "one holster to rule them all" solution for what you're describing.
    Yesterday at 7:27pm · Edited · Like · 5

  • Joel Michael Townsend
    Jason Randall of Blackbeard Tactical can help
    Yesterday at 7:34pm · Like · 1

  • Roland Deschaintull
    Don't know if they make this style anymore but this has been my go to holster for duty carry for the past ten years.

    Yesterday at 7:39pm · Like · 1

  • Roland Deschaintull


    Yesterday at 7:40pm · Like

  • Roland Deschaintull


    Yesterday at 7:40pm · Like

  • Roland Deschaintull
    It holds 19,17,22,34,35 with or without comp, and with X300. Actually it's so old it holds x200, so with a 300U it sticks up enough that the thumb break does not work.
    Yesterday at 7:42pm · Like

  • Roland Deschaintull
    I don't worry about retention because of explosives on my person, if you enter my personal space, you get shot in the face because touching me is hostile intent due to grenade pull rings and such.

    As a result I kept using the same holster as I replaced lights and could no longer use the thumb brake.
    Yesterday at 7:45pm · Like · 2

  • Roland Deschaintull
    So this is a blade tech with dropped and offset cant, but I have worn it with a paddle too under a BDU top for tolling around the FOB.
    Yesterday at 7:48pm · Like · 1

  • Matt Grösch
    I've used a blade tech for ccw of a 26 for almost 15 years
    Yesterday at 7:52pm · Like

  • Shane Fitch
    I've had the same Bladetech as Roland for probabl 15 years. Safariland at the time did not make a Glock 35 holster. Even though I'm a ALS user now for duty stuff, off duty holster, Peters and Raven, dont have extra retention. Im comfortable with that though.
    Yesterday at 7:58pm · Like · 1

  • Michael Goerlich
    Pretty much every holster maker makes a thumb-break holster. The problem with both thumb-breaks and the SLS hoods (for law enforcement) is that far too many criminals are savvy to how they work, and are able to defeat them as easily as you do while drawing from them.

    If you need an extra measure of retention for peace of mind while getting in and out of vehicles or jumping out of airplanes, they are ideal for that application. But for law enforcement applications where defense from a gun-grab is your concern, I do not feel they offer sufficient protection.

    I have personally watched (in a controlled environment as a demo) a career criminal snatch blue guns from deputies' level two duty rigs before the deputies could do a damn thing about it. Thumb breaks were a joke to him, and the biggest impediment to him with the SLS wasn't the bail at all; it was the Safarilaminate lining dragging on the gun as he snatched it. Even still, he was able to do both two- and one-handed gun snatches against deputies who KNEW he was about to go for their gun and were actively resisting...and he was probably having about an 80% success rate. The guy snatching blue guns told the group that what he was doing was stuff he had been taught on the streets and in prison.

    I don't say this to badmouth anyone's products. But personally, if I had to use a holster overtly for LE work, it would be something from Safariland that involved an ALS mechanism and a Safarilaminate lining.

    ...and I own a holster company that ISN'T named Safariland, if that gives you some perspective on my advice.
    Yesterday at 8:05pm · Unlike · 7

  • Tom Kelley
    What Michael said
    Yesterday at 8:09pm · Edited · Unlike · 3

  • Jimmy Holford
    Goerlich, I have defeated a real take away attempt with an ALS and agree with you. When I know I am going to do overt stuff that's what I use.

    Yesterday I was doing covert surveillance, wearing my Phantom LC, when patrol had some guys take off on them right in front of me with zero warning. I'm just looking to bridge that gap a little. I still have blades, and soon a g43 if I find myself in a disarm situation...
    Yesterday at 8:24pm · Like · 1

  • Roland Deschaintull
    I agree. Once thumb brake is dead..... ah like now. The savages will stop training defeat on them.

    If showcasing a caged animal that can defeat the flavor of his day is an indicator, why don't you let that animal out of his cage for a day and let hi...See More
    Yesterday at 8:36pm · Unlike · 3

  • Chuck Haggard
    Being the bad guy during scenarios I have gun grabbed a lot of rookies successfully. IMHO the ALS is the toughest to gun grab from if the person does anything but just stand there.
    Southnarc found in ECQC that of the open top holsters, the leather IWB...See More
    Yesterday at 8:59pm · Unlike · 2

  • Michael Goerlich
    There is a hardware solution and a software solution.

    If it were my job to provide the software, I'd tell guys "concealment IS your retention..they can't grab what they don't know you have." And then I'd get them enrolled in some quality combatives/weapon retention training by a SME.

    As a provider of hardware, I have no control over the software. The amount of "eye of the tiger" in an officer varies from one guy to the next, and the amount and quality of training varies from one department to the next. So when I see guys say "I'd like a holster that I can hide under a t-shirt, but throw in some level-two retention just in case I have to fight off a gun-grab by some dude on PCP," it's my responsibility to suggest better hardware since it's not my wheelhouse to train them.

    I have no doubt that the dude I saw snatching blue guns could probably have developed a way to grab from an ALS over time. But there is no question that the ALS is much more complex, and defeating that complexity during a gun-grab will not be as quick or easy as chopping a thumb-break. And while thumb-breaks have been nearly completely phased out of Safariland holsters (in favor of ALS/SLS), they are still the primary retention method for duty holsters from the other big duty gear makers like Bianchi, Gould & Goodrich, and Aker...so I don't think it's safe to call them "dead" just yet.

    Personally, I think some good training combined with a suitable blade and/or a second pistol is a far better solution than relying on mechanical gee-gaws to prevent a gun-grab, but as a gear manufacturer, my advice can't make any assumptions about the end-user's skill level.
    Yesterday at 9:19pm · Unlike · 1

  • Chuck Haggard
    The whole reason for retention holsters, IMHO, is for the holster to survive a grab long enough for the wearer to do something about it. I have seen holsters back in the day that ripped open from top to bottom under the stress of a gun grab. That is seriously UnSat
    Yesterday at 9:24pm · Unlike · 3
 

KUTF

Regular Member
The Bladetech/5.11 Thumbdrive holster may be an option. I'm not the biggest fan but it offers active retention and appears to accept RDS equipped pistols (although the WML seems to be a no-go).
 

Default.mp3

Established
How do people feel about SLS with a hood guard for defeating gun grabs, at least from the front? Unfortunately, ALS isn't available for various handguns in various configurations.
 

Matt Landfair

Matt Six Actual
Staff member
Administrator
Since I found my SLS hood defeated by me sitting in my car countless times....

Maybe if you add the other measures to it?
 

Runcible

Runcible Works
Staff member
Moderator
Vendor
This subject interest me quite a bit, and I go back and forth on it now and then.

The Bladetech hoods are probably the best option available for most DIY shops, but they have some of the same deficiencies I perceive thumb snaps to have in the concealed roles.

Were Safariland ALS systems available commercially, I think they'd be much more suited for IWB (organizational requirement) and OWB (in the truly concealing sense); alas, they aren't, and I can guess several reasons that might be prudent for Safariland.

It is definitely doable; but it may take some effort. Every now and then I consider savaging a spare ALS body to test out an idea.

That exposition done, what would everyone want in their idealized concealed retention holster?

IWB or OWB? Basic pattern/layout?
Retention device and release system?
Cant or lackthereof?
Mechanism for attaching to the belt?
Etc?
 

ptrlcop

Established
I would want something as low profile as a Raven Phantom with modular attachment methods and retention similar to the ALS. I would also probably want a slightly tougher material than kydex.
 

Runcible

Runcible Works
Staff member
Moderator
Vendor
A pancake-shaped final product is probably doable, but I think pancake-type pressings will show premature failure during testing. Taco-fold designs seem to be stronger when you're really wrenching at them, given the relative strength of the fold vs the riveted side; but the overlapping fold-over shape that Safariland uses for their ALS and SLS holster bodies hides potential failure points better. That is likely why they went with that shaping.

Pancake designs don't play nearly as well with the Bladetech WRS' as tacos, as the additional slop they introduce doesn't resist the disengagement motion quite as well. That the WRS needs a motion driving towards the body, as with thumbsnaps, makes them less them optimal for IWB rigs where there isn't standoff; in my experience.

OWB taco-fold designs aren't generally as body-hugging as pancake designs, nor do they usually benefit from a broad base and the stability that goes with that.

Modular attachments are going to have to be durable enough to match the retention device itself.

(So I wrote all of that not to shut down the idea, but to put out some of my findings, with the hope that the membership here can help work to a viable design.)
 

JCSpringer

Regular Member
@Riafdnal Did you keep the hood guard on your safariland holster? I removed mine as soon as I left the academy. But after opening the by sitting and turning to use the MDC (MDT) I realized I needed to keep the hood shroud on it. Since re installing the shroud I've had no problems.
 

JCSpringer

Regular Member
Yeah, I thought it was a cool guy thing to do by taking it off. But gave up and went to practicality over looks. I reinstalled it and couldn't be happier. No more sit down and release.
 
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