CESwartz07
Member
My After Action Review of Caliber Training Group, LLC and its owner, Samuel R. Hayes III.
The following is my email contact between Caliber Training Group as represented by Mr. Hayes, and myself, with my explanations and additional comments and references added in.
Short background: My friend and co-worker Blevin and I had been discussing attending more training classes on our own time and dime. Blevin finds out on the www.shivworks.com calendar that Craig Douglas, aka SouthNarc, is teaching ECQC, hosted by Caliber Training Group, LLC in Atlanta, GA on 4/21-23/2017. This is the closest ECQC seems to come to our area. Registration and payment is to be completed through the host, Caliber. Caliber lists the cost as $550, $100 more than the standard $450 ECQC course fee listed on the Shivworks website. We assume this is the range fee built in, as there is no further clarification on the Caliber website.
I sent payment in full, $550.00, via PayPal using a Visa Credit Card on 03/07/2017 to Caliber Training Group.
I do not receive any confirmation other than a PayPal receipt. Phone calls to Caliber (404-673-9641) and emails to info@calibertraininggroup.com asking for confirmation and more information initially go unanswered. Blevin meanwhile has also paid in full and is also attempting to make contact.
12 days later…
Hayes, via Caliber, to Blevin, myself, and at least 5 other students (3/19/17 @ 1230 hours CST): “Thank you for your recent registration and full - payment for the Upcoming Shivworks ECQC class being held in Atlanta on April 21 – 23, 2017. Below is location and hotel information for the class. You are welcome to stay in whatever hotel you choose but the one listed below is one that I recently identified ad being closer to the range for day 2 and 3 and will shave your morning commute in half compared to staying in metro-Atlanta.
The class locations are:
Day One
Elite Edge Fitness
3550 Broad St.
Chamblee, GA 30341
Day 2-3
South River Gun Club
5205 GA-212,
Covington, GA 30016
And the hotel is:
Holiday Inn Express Atlanta-Conyers
Address: 1302 Green St SE
Conyers, GA 30012
Phone: (678) 964-2400
Day 2 and 3 both require a $30 range fee each day that I will collect each morning and pay directly to the range. Please bring CASH ONLY for this expense. We thank you for your support and look forward to training with you during this event.”
After learning that we are required to pay an additional $60 in cash range fees after already paying $100 over the cost of the class, 2 other students reply all demanding a refund. The additional range fee was never mentioned on the web page for the class or anywhere else. Blevin and I decide to not back out, that we will instead grin and bear it and just let it reflect in our after action review. We go on to reserve our hotel room, take vacation days from work, and purchase other class prerequisite gear (cup, mouth guard, ammo, etc.).
14 days before start of class, on a Saturday…
Hayes, via Caliber (4/8/17 @ 0932): “I regret to inform you that this scheduled training event has been cancelled due to low registration numbers. This is an unusual occurrence as our previous classes have all filled with waiting list. Full refunds will be issued over the next 30 days in the amounts you paid to register, in accordance with the Cancellation and refund policy on the web site. We ask that you be patient and again, we apologize for this inconvenience.”
Now, to quote from the CaliberTrainingGroup.com website, under “Payment and Cancellation Policy”, (http://www.calibertraininggroup.com/site-information/payment-cancellation-policy.php) it states in part…
“Caliber Training Group Payment and Cancellation Policy
If the class has to be cancelled due to lack of participants, it will be cancelled at 28 days from the class date and all students who have not cancelled voluntarily will receive a full refund.
Cancellation by Caliber Training Group, LLC
Caliber Training Group, LLC reserves the right to cancel the program with reasonable notice give or due to any emergency on our part with no notice given. All students who have not cancelled voluntarily will receive a full refund or the student can choose to apply the fees towards another class. If the class has to be cancelled due to lack of participants, it will be cancelled at 28 days from the class date and all students who have not cancelled voluntarily will receive a full refund.”
Not to mention that 30 days is a very long time to wait on a simple refund. It’s not like I’m return shipping an item I’m dissatisfied with. My money should be just sitting in his account, waiting to pay Shivworks.
Me, replying to Hayes via Caliber (4/8/17 @ 1748): “Reading your policy it says if you are going to cancel class due to a lack of preregistrations, you would do so 28 days prior, yet here we are only 14 days out. Please at least do us the decency of processing our refunds quickly so that we can schedule training elsewhere. Hopefully our hotel reservations will allow us to cancel so late.”
13 days goes by without any further contact from Hayes. Attempts to call the number for Caliber go directly to voicemail, which is full. Luckily Blevin and I are able to cancel our hotel reservations, etc.
Me, sent directly to Hayes after locating his personal email address associated with his PayPal account (SRHayes3atl@gmail.com)(4/21/17 @ 1648): “Please advise the status of my refund for ECQC. You have not responded to my last email and my attempts to call have been met with voicemail box that is full”
Hayes (4/24/17 @ 1237): “Your last email didn't have any questions in it. Didn't see where there was anything to respond to. As for my policy, I'm well aware what it says. My policy applies to MY classes. ECQC is not MY class, I am just the host. I've already processed a number of refunds. I'll check and see where yours is in the que if it has not already been processed.”
Kind of hostile don’t you think? And the contradictions about his own refund policy and how it is applied. Blevin has also not received his refund at this time.
Me (4/24/17 @ 2029): “Thank you for the reply. Please keep me updated.”
Another week goes by, no refund, no replies…
Me (5/1/17 @ 1858): “Any update? Next Monday will be a full 30 days since the cancellation. If I have not received my full refund by that date I will be forced to contest the charge through PayPal and/or Visa, etc.”
Yet another week goes by, still no refund, still no replies…
Me (5/7/17 @ 1917): “30 days gone by, Still no refund, or even a reply to my last email. I guess I'll start my PayPal/Visa claim tomorrow.”
Hayes (5/7/17 @ 1949): “30 days is tomorrow, as stated in your previous email and you've already started your PayPal claim days ago. So you tell me...do you want to wait on PayPal, which will likely add 2 weeks to your refund or would you prefer to be patient until I can get to it tomorrow along with the dozens of other things people have to contend with in day to day life?”
Procrastinate much? I mean what kind of a-hole waits till the very last second to get around to giving me back MY money, and then acts like I’m the unreasonable one?
Me (5/7/17 @ 2019): “I sent you an email through PayPal, but have not yet filed a claim. If the full refund is not complete by tomorrow, then I will proceed with the claim. It is ridiculous that I have had to wait this long to get my money back, and I have been as patient as I can be.”
Me (5/8/17 @ 1602): “its 1700 your time, what's the hold up?”
No reply, No refund, over 30 days since cancellation by Hayes…
I started my PayPal dispute on 05/08/2017 @1729.
Me to Hayes via PayPal: “I have still not received my full refund for the ECQC class that you cancelled. It has been 30 days since you advised us of the cancellation, and you have had ample time to complete the refund, yet, you have not.”
I then immediately escalated my dispute to a claim, due to already having attempted to resolve with Hayes via email.
Me to PayPal @ 1735: “I have been in communication with this seller for the past 30 days, but he has not come through on my full refund. I paid him in full for a training class. Two weeks prior to the start of the class, he cancelled the class. Per his policy on his website, and the email he sent when he advised of the cancellation, I am due a full refund. He advised it would take up to 30 days to process the refunds, and 30 days have now elapsed. In emails, he keeps saying he will do it, but has not yet, and has been somewhat verbally abusive. I have all our email communications saved if needed.”
Hayes (5/11/17 @ 1438): “Im working with Paypal right now to issue you a full refund. Will email you when its processed.”
Me (5/11/17 @ 1452): “Thank you.”
Hayes never responded to the PayPal Claim. PayPal has advised the claim has been decided in my favor, and I will receive my $550 refund in my PayPal account within 7 days.
Take this as you will, but I can assure you I will never recommend that anyone schedule any training through Caliber Training Group, LLC or Mr. Samuel R. Hayes III. If you do some google searching, you’ll find I am not the only one that has had such negative interactions with him. I also hope this reaches other trainers including Mr. Craig Douglas, and they reconsider hosting their excellent training through such a shady individual. I also thank PayPal for their excellent buyer protection program. None of the above constitutes legal advice.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The following is my email contact between Caliber Training Group as represented by Mr. Hayes, and myself, with my explanations and additional comments and references added in.
Short background: My friend and co-worker Blevin and I had been discussing attending more training classes on our own time and dime. Blevin finds out on the www.shivworks.com calendar that Craig Douglas, aka SouthNarc, is teaching ECQC, hosted by Caliber Training Group, LLC in Atlanta, GA on 4/21-23/2017. This is the closest ECQC seems to come to our area. Registration and payment is to be completed through the host, Caliber. Caliber lists the cost as $550, $100 more than the standard $450 ECQC course fee listed on the Shivworks website. We assume this is the range fee built in, as there is no further clarification on the Caliber website.
I sent payment in full, $550.00, via PayPal using a Visa Credit Card on 03/07/2017 to Caliber Training Group.
I do not receive any confirmation other than a PayPal receipt. Phone calls to Caliber (404-673-9641) and emails to info@calibertraininggroup.com asking for confirmation and more information initially go unanswered. Blevin meanwhile has also paid in full and is also attempting to make contact.
12 days later…
Hayes, via Caliber, to Blevin, myself, and at least 5 other students (3/19/17 @ 1230 hours CST): “Thank you for your recent registration and full - payment for the Upcoming Shivworks ECQC class being held in Atlanta on April 21 – 23, 2017. Below is location and hotel information for the class. You are welcome to stay in whatever hotel you choose but the one listed below is one that I recently identified ad being closer to the range for day 2 and 3 and will shave your morning commute in half compared to staying in metro-Atlanta.
The class locations are:
Day One
Elite Edge Fitness
3550 Broad St.
Chamblee, GA 30341
Day 2-3
South River Gun Club
5205 GA-212,
Covington, GA 30016
And the hotel is:
Holiday Inn Express Atlanta-Conyers
Address: 1302 Green St SE
Conyers, GA 30012
Phone: (678) 964-2400
Day 2 and 3 both require a $30 range fee each day that I will collect each morning and pay directly to the range. Please bring CASH ONLY for this expense. We thank you for your support and look forward to training with you during this event.”
After learning that we are required to pay an additional $60 in cash range fees after already paying $100 over the cost of the class, 2 other students reply all demanding a refund. The additional range fee was never mentioned on the web page for the class or anywhere else. Blevin and I decide to not back out, that we will instead grin and bear it and just let it reflect in our after action review. We go on to reserve our hotel room, take vacation days from work, and purchase other class prerequisite gear (cup, mouth guard, ammo, etc.).
14 days before start of class, on a Saturday…
Hayes, via Caliber (4/8/17 @ 0932): “I regret to inform you that this scheduled training event has been cancelled due to low registration numbers. This is an unusual occurrence as our previous classes have all filled with waiting list. Full refunds will be issued over the next 30 days in the amounts you paid to register, in accordance with the Cancellation and refund policy on the web site. We ask that you be patient and again, we apologize for this inconvenience.”
Now, to quote from the CaliberTrainingGroup.com website, under “Payment and Cancellation Policy”, (http://www.calibertraininggroup.com/site-information/payment-cancellation-policy.php) it states in part…
“Caliber Training Group Payment and Cancellation Policy
If the class has to be cancelled due to lack of participants, it will be cancelled at 28 days from the class date and all students who have not cancelled voluntarily will receive a full refund.
Cancellation by Caliber Training Group, LLC
Caliber Training Group, LLC reserves the right to cancel the program with reasonable notice give or due to any emergency on our part with no notice given. All students who have not cancelled voluntarily will receive a full refund or the student can choose to apply the fees towards another class. If the class has to be cancelled due to lack of participants, it will be cancelled at 28 days from the class date and all students who have not cancelled voluntarily will receive a full refund.”
Not to mention that 30 days is a very long time to wait on a simple refund. It’s not like I’m return shipping an item I’m dissatisfied with. My money should be just sitting in his account, waiting to pay Shivworks.
Me, replying to Hayes via Caliber (4/8/17 @ 1748): “Reading your policy it says if you are going to cancel class due to a lack of preregistrations, you would do so 28 days prior, yet here we are only 14 days out. Please at least do us the decency of processing our refunds quickly so that we can schedule training elsewhere. Hopefully our hotel reservations will allow us to cancel so late.”
13 days goes by without any further contact from Hayes. Attempts to call the number for Caliber go directly to voicemail, which is full. Luckily Blevin and I are able to cancel our hotel reservations, etc.
Me, sent directly to Hayes after locating his personal email address associated with his PayPal account (SRHayes3atl@gmail.com)(4/21/17 @ 1648): “Please advise the status of my refund for ECQC. You have not responded to my last email and my attempts to call have been met with voicemail box that is full”
Hayes (4/24/17 @ 1237): “Your last email didn't have any questions in it. Didn't see where there was anything to respond to. As for my policy, I'm well aware what it says. My policy applies to MY classes. ECQC is not MY class, I am just the host. I've already processed a number of refunds. I'll check and see where yours is in the que if it has not already been processed.”
Kind of hostile don’t you think? And the contradictions about his own refund policy and how it is applied. Blevin has also not received his refund at this time.
Me (4/24/17 @ 2029): “Thank you for the reply. Please keep me updated.”
Another week goes by, no refund, no replies…
Me (5/1/17 @ 1858): “Any update? Next Monday will be a full 30 days since the cancellation. If I have not received my full refund by that date I will be forced to contest the charge through PayPal and/or Visa, etc.”
Yet another week goes by, still no refund, still no replies…
Me (5/7/17 @ 1917): “30 days gone by, Still no refund, or even a reply to my last email. I guess I'll start my PayPal/Visa claim tomorrow.”
Hayes (5/7/17 @ 1949): “30 days is tomorrow, as stated in your previous email and you've already started your PayPal claim days ago. So you tell me...do you want to wait on PayPal, which will likely add 2 weeks to your refund or would you prefer to be patient until I can get to it tomorrow along with the dozens of other things people have to contend with in day to day life?”
Procrastinate much? I mean what kind of a-hole waits till the very last second to get around to giving me back MY money, and then acts like I’m the unreasonable one?
Me (5/7/17 @ 2019): “I sent you an email through PayPal, but have not yet filed a claim. If the full refund is not complete by tomorrow, then I will proceed with the claim. It is ridiculous that I have had to wait this long to get my money back, and I have been as patient as I can be.”
Me (5/8/17 @ 1602): “its 1700 your time, what's the hold up?”
No reply, No refund, over 30 days since cancellation by Hayes…
I started my PayPal dispute on 05/08/2017 @1729.
Me to Hayes via PayPal: “I have still not received my full refund for the ECQC class that you cancelled. It has been 30 days since you advised us of the cancellation, and you have had ample time to complete the refund, yet, you have not.”
I then immediately escalated my dispute to a claim, due to already having attempted to resolve with Hayes via email.
Me to PayPal @ 1735: “I have been in communication with this seller for the past 30 days, but he has not come through on my full refund. I paid him in full for a training class. Two weeks prior to the start of the class, he cancelled the class. Per his policy on his website, and the email he sent when he advised of the cancellation, I am due a full refund. He advised it would take up to 30 days to process the refunds, and 30 days have now elapsed. In emails, he keeps saying he will do it, but has not yet, and has been somewhat verbally abusive. I have all our email communications saved if needed.”
Hayes (5/11/17 @ 1438): “Im working with Paypal right now to issue you a full refund. Will email you when its processed.”
Me (5/11/17 @ 1452): “Thank you.”
Hayes never responded to the PayPal Claim. PayPal has advised the claim has been decided in my favor, and I will receive my $550 refund in my PayPal account within 7 days.
Take this as you will, but I can assure you I will never recommend that anyone schedule any training through Caliber Training Group, LLC or Mr. Samuel R. Hayes III. If you do some google searching, you’ll find I am not the only one that has had such negative interactions with him. I also hope this reaches other trainers including Mr. Craig Douglas, and they reconsider hosting their excellent training through such a shady individual. I also thank PayPal for their excellent buyer protection program. None of the above constitutes legal advice.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
