9mm Ammo Selection

RobbieRob

Newbie
Gents,

Since P&S is a serious place, and BS is likely to be expelled quickly, it seems reasonable to ask for information here.

Though I could make a request to the FBI with Army letterhead requesting their results and information, that's highly unusual, and would just get people looking sideways at me (non-deploying training unit). I would be suspicious if a Soldiers told me they needed to get in touch with the FBI. It will probably be better to do a FOIA request.

Having listened to the ModCast on Terminal Ballistics, I've learned a few things.

1. I have not "Transcended Ballistics", therefore ammo selection matters.
2. FBI Standard, accuracy and reliability matter.
3. Multiple approved carry ammos are good when one dries up.

Currently I have a small amount of Winchester Ranger 147gr SXT, and know it's a good ammo. It is also rarer than unicorn tears to non-LEO, so while I can use it for a while, at some point I'll need another ammo. Hopefully something that I can buy at a reasonable price, 500-2000 rounds at a time.

DocGKR thank you in advance for any help that you can give. I've seen you're not thrilled with CD (unsure if Critical Defense or Duty).
 

ggammell

Does not pass up an opportunity to criticize P&S.
$20 per box of 50 is a good price. You might catch it for $25 per box.
 

BooneGA

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
WARLORD
Bone frog gun club usually has the different varieties in stock for just under $20/50.
 

MojoNixon

Established
Gents,

Since P&S is a serious place, and BS is likely to be expelled quickly, it seems reasonable to ask for information here.

Though I could make a request to the FBI with Army letterhead requesting their results and information, that's highly unusual, and would just get people looking sideways at me (non-deploying training unit). I would be suspicious if a Soldiers told me they needed to get in touch with the FBI. It will probably be better to do a FOIA request.

Having listened to the ModCast on Terminal Ballistics, I've learned a few things.

1. I have not "Transcended Ballistics", therefore ammo selection matters.
2. FBI Standard, accuracy and reliability matter.
3. Multiple approved carry ammos are good when one dries up.

Currently I have a small amount of Winchester Ranger 147gr SXT, and know it's a good ammo. It is also rarer than unicorn tears to non-LEO, so while I can use it for a while, at some point I'll need another ammo. Hopefully something that I can buy at a reasonable price, 500-2000 rounds at a time.

DocGKR thank you in advance for any help that you can give. I've seen you're not thrilled with CD (unsure if Critical Defense or Duty).
I may be wrong here but I think the SXT line is an older version. The current is version I believe is Ranger-T. And I’ve seen it at SGAmmo I believe. $20 to $25/box of 50. SGAmmo usually has all HST except the +P 147 in stock in good quantities.
 

RobbieRob

Newbie
Bone frog gun club usually has the different varieties in stock for just under $20/50.
What is “a reasonable price” to you?
I may be wrong here but I think the SXT line is an older version. The current is version I believe is Ranger-T. And I’ve seen it at SGAmmo I believe. $20 to $25/box of 50. SGAmmo usually has all HST except the +P 147 in stock in good quantities.

As I'm MIL not LE or a security guard, I don't know how to get approved to order the ammo from bone frog. It seems quite reasonable that if an ammo has been approved and marketed towards LE they'll do a good job, and exhaustive testing has been done on them. Conducting the testing or getting the results of the already conducted testing is beyond my resources and expertise

Reasonable is less than $0.75 a round, preferably $0.40-$0.60, the more than a buck a round from the gun store is insane.

The SXT I have are older and black in color. No idea as to their age. I may end up going with some of the HSTs.
 

DocGKR

Dr.Ballistics
Staff member
Moderator
As noted, the black SXT is an older design that has a tendency to plug up in heavy clothing and is not barrier blind. There are better choices these days.

Consider:

Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
Remington Golden Saber bonded 124 gr +P JHP (GSB9MMD)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester 124 gr +P bonded JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P PT
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Speer G2 147 gr PT
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364/PDX1)
 

DocGKR

Dr.Ballistics
Staff member
Moderator
Also note that the FBI provides ammo data to military entities quite frequently...
 

BooneGA

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
WARLORD
Is the +P variant of the 147 gr HST good to go as well or is there a specific reason you included the standard pressure 147 instead?


I don't have the numbers in front of me but I recall the performance being almost identical, therefore there is no need for the additional recoil and wear on the gun that comes with the +p round.

Rick
 

user12358

Regular Member
I don't have the numbers in front of me but I recall the performance being almost identical, therefore there is no need for the additional recoil and wear on the gun that comes with the +p round.

I appreciate it. They both ended up being subsonic out of a compact and full size handgun with a shorty can so I was debating using the +P variant instead. I am assuming this carries true for almost all 147s given the list or is that an incorrect assumption?
 

BooneGA

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
WARLORD
I appreciate it. They both ended up being subsonic out of a compact and full size handgun with a shorty can so I was debating using the +P variant instead. I am assuming this carries true for almost all 147s given the list or is that an incorrect assumption?

I would hesitate to make such a broad assumption. Doc can answer better than I can.
 

MojoNixon

Established
I don't have the numbers in front of me but I recall the performance being almost identical, therefore there is no need for the additional recoil and wear on the gun that comes with the +p round.

Rick
I recall the same. I do recall the Standard pressure 147 HST being listed as 1000 FPS and the +P version being 1050 FPS. The specifics of barrier performance and gel performance escapes me.
I carry the +P version because it more reliably runs my comped G19.
 

user12358

Regular Member
I carry the +P version because it more reliably runs my comped G19.

Not to derail too much but is there a reason that you run 147+P over a 124+P in a comped 19? With the Glock 45 being released and the Aimpoint Acro coming out in the nearish future I am probably going to be going back to a comped Glock but have always previously just used 124 gr NATO ball for practice and 124 gr +P HST as a carry ammo and never really considered 147 for anything I am not running suppressed.
 

BooneGA

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
WARLORD
Not to derail too much but is there a reason that you run 147+P over a 124+P in a comped 19? With the Glock 45 being released and the Aimpoint Acro coming out in the nearish future I am probably going to be going back to a comped Glock but have always previously just used 124 gr NATO ball for practice and 124 gr +P HST as a carry ammo and never really considered 147 for anything I am not running suppressed.

I do the same. 147 HST in all my non-comped guns and 124 +P in the comped one. I have not compared the 147+P to the 124+P.

Rick
 

DocGKR

Dr.Ballistics
Staff member
Moderator
We have not found any significant difference in 147 gr HST vs. 147 gr +P HST; that ammo was made for a specific contract, not because the engineers at Federal thought it would work better...
 

user12358

Regular Member
We have not found any significant difference in 147 gr HST vs. 147 gr +P HST

Thanks for the reply Doc, if I could ask for one more point of clarification. Would you recommend a 124 gr +P HST or a 147 gr HST assuming that you are using a duty size handgun without a suppressor or compensator?
 

MojoNixon

Established
Not to derail too much but is there a reason that you run 147+P over a 124+P in a comped 19? With the Glock 45 being released and the Aimpoint Acro coming out in the nearish future I am probably going to be going back to a comped Glock but have always previously just used 124 gr NATO ball for practice and 124 gr +P HST as a carry ammo and never really considered 147 for anything I am not running suppressed.
I’ve just always preferred the heavier for caliber option.
I train with NATO Spec 9. The 2 rounds feel so substantially similar thru my comp to me that I’ve found no reason to switch to the 124 +P HST. At least not until the 147 +P supply runs totally dry. It’s getting close to happening. . I do have an on hand supply of the 124+P should that day ever come, though.
 
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