.300 Blackout

voodoo_man

Established
Every .30 cal bullet ever designed has been designed to work best at high velocity, why? because it's a rifle caliber, rifles have fast bullets.

.300BLK just tried to follow-along and borrow the same caliber. Realistically, the whole predicate of .300BLK is that it shoots heavy bullets subsonically, and fits in an AR-15. If someone had invested the effort in making a .357-Max fit in the AR-15, you would still be using pistol bullets, out of an AR.

There are bullets out there that are designed specific for the BLK, in all honesty, I can't think of a single reason I would want to defend my house with an NFA weapon, that puts me at far too great a risk of 1) Losing my gun/suppressor 2) explaining to the court why X or Y wouldn't do.

My suggestion, if you're going to use a rifle to defend your house, shoot the fastest bullets you can, if you have to shoot to kill, make sure you come out on top.

"I didn't want to wake the baby..."

;)
 

Dpvaz56

Member
Regarding terminal ballistics, be sure to not compare apples to oranges. Performance is going to be determined as much by the individual bullet design and velocity out of your individual barrel as it is by caliber. Blackout does have some reported overpenetration issues, with the only DocGKR approved round of blackout that I'm aware of being the 110gr TSX, available in the Barnes Vor-TX line as loaded ammo.

Bottom line is basically that the right Blackout round will do work, and the right 5.56 round will do work, as long as you do what's needed. The make or break for me between 5.56 and Blackout is barrel length. If i'm going shorter than 10.5 (and 10.5 is ragged edge for 5.56), I'll probably go with Blackout. That's assuming that I find a mission need to have a barrel under 10.5." Due to the better ammunition availability, cost, and performance of modern 5.56, I've found little practical use for Blackout in my life, after having two Blackout uppers that I bought and sold. Your needs may vary.

Agreed. I had a 9” BCM 300BLK Upper and as much as I liked using it the round didn’t offer enough increased performance IMO to offset the cost compared to 5.56. I sold the upper and used it to get a 10.5” 5.56 Upper. Now I’m looking for an 11.5” 5.56 Upper to replace the 10.5”. Unless you need maximum shortness I’d stick with 5.56.
 

ammomfg

Newbie
Admittedly, I wouldn’t mind getting my hands on a Sig LVAW though

I will admit, most of my experience with most of Sig's new designs are hugely anecdotal, but they're also nearly universally bad. (this covers the Sig AR-15, the Sig AR-10, and the MCX platforms)

I've also grown really tired of "AR-alike" rifles, that take enough design concepts from the AR, and then radically change how the gun works in ways that just kinda end up falling flat.
 

Dpvaz56

Member
I will admit, most of my experience with most of Sig's new designs are hugely anecdotal, but they're also nearly universally bad. (this covers the Sig AR-15, the Sig AR-10, and the MCX platforms)

I've also grown really tired of "AR-alike" rifles, that take enough design concepts from the AR, and then radically change how the gun works in ways that just kinda end up falling flat.

The LVAW is the original MCX (if you want to think of it that way) and was the system selected to replace the MP5SD for them JSOC hitters. Fun fact: the LVAW is not backwards compatible with standard MCX parts either (as least that's what the cloner's claim).

I also agree that there are a ton of AR-alike rifles but I'd go further and say they're just everyone's take on the SCAR family.

FN: SCAR
Rem/Bushmaster: ACR
Sig: MCX
Skeli: X11
Beretta: ARX100
CZ: Bren 805
Robinson: XCR
HK: 433

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few...

I'd say the AR-alike rifles are your piston guns (Sig Piston M4s, PWS, LWRCI, HK family) and the ones I listed above are your "SCAR-alike" ones.
 

Sunshine_Shooter

Established
Every .30 cal bullet ever designed has been designed to work best at high velocity, why? because it's a rifle caliber, rifles have fast bullets.

.300BLK just tried to follow-along and borrow the same caliber. Realistically, the whole predicate of .300BLK is that it shoots heavy bullets subsonically, and fits in an AR-15. If someone had invested the effort in making a .357-Max fit in the AR-15, you would still be using pistol bullets, out of an AR.

There are bullets out there that are designed specific for the BLK, in all honesty, I can't think of a single reason I would want to defend my house with an NFA weapon, that puts me at far too great a risk of 1) Losing my gun/suppressor 2) explaining to the court why X or Y wouldn't do.

My suggestion, if you're going to use a rifle to defend your house, shoot the fastest bullets you can, if you have to shoot to kill, make sure you come out on top.

A few things:

1) Hornady introduced a subsonic expanding bullet in .300BLK. It uses a flex-tip like the Leverevolution and Critical Duty/Defense rounds to expand below the speed of sound. I've only seen their promotional materials on it, have not seen anyone test it yet. I hope it works, because SBR-velocity defensive rounds seem like a thing that people should have been making by now. Like you said in your first sentence, bullets are designed to go fast. SBRs/large frame (AR) pistols trade bullet velocity for maneuverability, but we haven't seen much if any updated bullet tech to offset this.

2) I have little reservation to using NFA weapons inside my own home. Between "This gun is purpose-built to be used effectively inside a structure", "unsuppressed rifles cause significant, permanent hearing loss inside a house, I don't want my kids growing up slightly disabled because someone decided to break into my home" and "This is where I keep my NFA items and this one happened to be the closest when the alarm went off", I don't see the weapon choice being used effectively against me in a court. Also, Second Call Defense will get my firearms back or replace them entirely in the event of police confiscation, and that's before I step foot in a court room.

3) I'm just a dude on the Internet with no verifiable real-life experience, I can't actually imagine what a professional prosecutor could do to me. No one should take my opinions as legal advise.
 

jeremy_p

Amateur
Nosler 220gr round nose Ballistic Tip expands down to 850fps and is available in commercial 300 Blackout ammo.
 

ammomfg

Newbie
The LVAW is the original MCX (if you want to think of it that way) and was the system selected to replace the MP5SD for them JSOC hitters. Fun fact: the LVAW is not backwards compatible with standard MCX parts either (as least that's what the cloner's claim).

I also agree that there are a ton of AR-alike rifles but I'd go further and say they're just everyone's take on the SCAR family.

FN: SCAR
Rem/Bushmaster: ACR
Sig: MCX
Skeli: X11
Beretta: ARX100
CZ: Bren 805
Robinson: XCR
HK: 433

I'm sure I'm forgetting a few...

I'd say the AR-alike rifles are your piston guns (Sig Piston M4s, PWS, LWRCI, HK family) and the ones I listed above are your "SCAR-alike" ones.

Totally agree, the SCAR/ACR/805/806/MSBS/433/ACR are "Scar-alike" main thing with these guns, they're all extruded aluminum with parts screwed or otherwise fitted to an upper. the MCX is using forged aluminum parts, and uses a similar takedown system. Same with XCR. The ARX... I probably wouldn't put that in this list at all. These guns required significant changes and really re-thought the design and manufacturing process. This is why I would delineate the difference.
 

Low_Speed_Notper8or

Regular Member
A few things:

1) Hornady introduced a subsonic expanding bullet in .300BLK. It uses a flex-tip like the Leverevolution and Critical Duty/Defense rounds to expand below the speed of sound. I've only seen their promotional materials on it, have not seen anyone test it yet. I hope it works, because SBR-velocity defensive rounds seem like a thing that people should have been making by now. Like you said in your first sentence, bullets are designed to go fast. SBRs/large frame (AR) pistols trade bullet velocity for maneuverability, but we haven't seen much if any updated bullet tech to offset this.

2) I have little reservation to using NFA weapons inside my own home. Between "This gun is purpose-built to be used effectively inside a structure", "unsuppressed rifles cause significant, permanent hearing loss inside a house, I don't want my kids growing up slightly disabled because someone decided to break into my home" and "This is where I keep my NFA items and this one happened to be the closest when the alarm went off", I don't see the weapon choice being used effectively against me in a court. Also, Second Call Defense will get my firearms back or replace them entirely in the event of police confiscation, and that's before I step foot in a court room.

3) I'm just a dude on the Internet with no verifiable real-life experience, I can't actually imagine what a professional prosecutor could do to me. No one should take my opinions as legal advise.

What state are you in? A dude in a castle doctrine state with pre-paid legal representation is a different deal then someone in a blue state
 

Bub

Amateur
OK let me start out by saying I'm really not a big fan of the 300 Blackout. For those old enough to get the reference I always thought of it as the New Coke of rifle rounds. Why??? The high velocity rounds don't offer anything that much different from what's already out there and the subsonic rounds seem to turn your rifle into a pistol. However, I was at a gun store a few days back and they had a Ruger Ranger Rifle in 300 Blackout. I know nothing about the quality of these rifles, but the one I was looking at was priced at or less than what an AR 300 Blackout upper would cost. It got me to thinking that something like this might make a good platform for shooting the subsonic 300 Blackout rounds. Despite what I said above the subsonic Blackout round in a "suppressed" bolt gun would seem to make a nice quiet setup for varmints and whatever else you need a 300 Blackout. There really aren't that many bolt action long guns out there chambered in pistol calibers. The few I have seen are priced well above what one of these things run.
 

Bub

Amateur
After really looking into the whole 300 blk I have come to the conclusion it just doesn't offer enough benefit. As I mentioned above, a bolt gun shooting subsonic would be neat, but the ballistics passed 50 yards or so are iffy.
 

Sunshine_Shooter

Established
I'd consider a bolt gun in .300. Quieter than any AR, and the whole ".300 in my .223" situation seems to be a lot less likely. Yeah it wouldn't have great ballistics at any sort of distance, but some things don't need to have a lot of utility. -that goes double for a rifle that costs less than a new AR upper, and is quieter.
 

CodyY

Newbie
After really looking into the whole 300 blk I have come to the conclusion it just doesn't offer enough benefit. As I mentioned above, a bolt gun shooting subsonic would be neat, but the ballistics passed 50 yards or so are iffy.
Unless you live in a state where its illegal to hunt with 223, theres no reason for a 300 rifle IMO. And no reason to be longer than 12" (especially so if suppressed). Supersonics are burned out out by then and subs are done at 9". A blackout upper is just the easiest way to not have to setup another gun. A pistol bypasses having to take an sbr across state lines and notification of such.


Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 

Bub

Amateur
I'd consider a bolt gun in .300. Quieter than any AR, and the whole ".300 in my .223" situation seems to be a lot less likely. Yeah it wouldn't have great ballistics at any sort of distance, but some things don't need to have a lot of utility. -that goes double for a rifle that costs less than a new AR upper, and is quieter.
Can't really disagree with what you said. I really don't have an issue with the whole 300 in my 223 thing, maybe someone else mentioned that. I don't think it is any more likely than a 20 gauge in my 12 gauge or whatever. In fact the rifle I looked at actually takes AR mags which I thought was really neat. However, I do like to try and limit the variety of calibers I have to deal with. Streamlining I think it's called. Personally I can see using a bolt 300 blk more than an AR style 300 blk. The quiet thing is cool. Utility is subjective and recreation is a utility as far as I'm concerned, but I have other firearms that I can suppress. As for hunting, in the state I live it's actually legal to hunt deer with airguns as long as they are .35 caliber or greater and no doubt 300 blk is more potent. I even spoke with a dude who hunts deer with a subsonic 300 blk and states it works great at close distances, but the rounds he has used don't expand. Maybe ammo selection will improve. The new 190 gr Hornady round sounds interesting.
 

Ben H

Member
So are the Barnes 110gr and 120gr VOR-TX /TAC-TX BT still the go to for super sonic personal defense? Are there any recommendations on the FBI ammo list? Has anything come out since that is comparable/better? Outdoor Life awarded it the ammo of the year on 2012, so that's quite a lengthy time to reign if its still king. I recently picked up a .300BLK upper, and I'm trying to decide on what ammo to feed it. This is a niche rifle that will not be shot often, so the price for ammo is not a huge concern. @voodoo_man @Pat Tarrant
 

patriot_man

Regular Member
MCX is using forged aluminum parts

Only the lower is forged 7075 on the MCX. The upper is extruded 6061... Those steel inserts sure sound good right now.

I run a Rattler chassis as both the upper and lower is 7075 but to get to accept longer barrels means buying a bolt carrier with the longer op rod found on the Virtus.
 

Ben H

Member
Pat, to avoid confusion, I think it's important to recognize which Barnes bullet you're talking about. The good one for the Blackout is the "Black Tip" TTSX, not the TSX or the blue tip TTSX. Those are three different bullets, all 110gr Barnes, but the TSX and blue tip TTSX are intended for 308 and larger capacity cartridges at higher velocity, they don't work well in the Blackout. It's become commonplace to refer to that Blackout bullet as the "Black Tip" rather than TSX or TTSX to avoid confusion with the others.
Just to clarify, are you referring to the actual bullet (for reloads)? Or do they make .300 TTSX ammo with blue tip?
 
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