.300 Blackout

Yondering

Regular Member
#62
Just to clarify, are you referring to the actual bullet (for reloads)? Or do they make .300 TTSX ammo with blue tip?
Ben, I was talking about the bullets, not loaded ammo. For those of us who load our own, there are several choices in 110gr Barnes bullets, and they are not all appropriate for the 300 Blk.
 
#63
I live in Oklahoma and our hunting regs are that you need at least a 55gr bullet. The 223 cal hunting loads in my own experience are not adequate for medium/large game. 300 blackout was intriguing to me because of its compatibility with my existing platforms. So I built a 300 blackout rifle.....

Here is my own conclusion based upon this endeavor.

1. 30 caliber has a long history of good terminal effect.
2. I don’t like wearing ear pro when stalking in order to gain situational awareness. So I shoot supressed. Supressed 223/556 still isn’t that “quiet.”
3. It’s a good terminal round out to about 200-250 yards. (150 gr Winchester and the Lehigh loads are good as well.)
4. It doubles at a HD rifle because of reason 2, if shot inside my family won’t be totally deaf granted it will still be loud.
5. Subs are only good for the gram and impressing dudes on the range.

I think Valparaiso SWAT is considering adoption???

This extrapolated into how it would preform on a human target. I would assume it will perform well in that aspect. Is it the rifle/caliber I would want if I was clearing houses and shooting across valleys, no. However in certain rolls it fits the bill, even if it isn’t the “best all around” round available.

Not trying to sound fudd-ish just offering another perspective.
 
#65
Bringing this back up:
Has there been any updates for HD or duty-suitable subsonic factor loads?
Some subsonic loads will penetrate soft armor which gives it an advantage over traditional handgun calibers. S&B 200gr, Sig 220gr match, and Fioochi 220gr are the best subsonic ball round for reliability/performance. When it comes to hard armor performance the results are similar to 7.62x39.
 

Yondering

Regular Member
#66
Some subsonic loads will penetrate soft armor which gives it an advantage over traditional handgun calibers. S&B 200gr, Sig 220gr match, and Fioochi 220gr are the best subsonic ball round for reliability/performance. When it comes to hard armor performance the results are similar to 7.62x39.
While several of the heavy subsonic rounds do penetrate soft armor well, I think it's important to recognize those as basically a ballistic ice pick; do not expect those to perform like a rifle round, or even like an expanding pistol round. The stability and lack of deformation that allows them to penetrate soft armor also translates to minimal damage in meat unless they strike bone.

When you compare hard armor performance to 7.62x39, that is true with supersonic (full power) 110-130gr loads, but not with subsonics. None of the 300 Blackout loads are particularly good on hard armor compared to 5.56 or 308, but I have found in my own testing that the "barrier blind" Mk319 SOST 130gr bullet works well in the 300 Blackout. I don't know if there are any commercial loads for that bullet though; I bought a supply of the bullets a few years ago and have been testing them in 308 and 300 Blk since then.
 
#67
So if you wanted a small suppressed weapon with subsonic ammunition for home defense would you be better served with a 9mm pcc firing 147gr HSTs or would the 300blk still outperform those being a rifle round?
 

JLL2013

Regular Member
#68
Considering the 300blk was developed and employed to replace a 9mm PCC the answer is fairly obvious.

So if you wanted a small suppressed weapon with subsonic ammunition for home defense would you be better served with a 9mm pcc firing 147gr HSTs or would the 300blk still outperform those being a rifle round?
 

Yondering

Regular Member
#69
Considering the 300blk was developed and employed to replace a 9mm PCC the answer is fairly obvious.
The answer is not as obvious as you may think.

If he'd asked about full power loads, then it's a slam dunk for the 300, and that is where it's real advantage is. But in subsonics - the choices of effective subsonic 30 caliber bullets is very limited, and even harder to find in loaded ammo. In 9mm on the other hand, we've got a lot of very good choices that perform a lot better than the typical subsonic 300 Blk.

Too many people get hung up on the idea that somehow a subsonic round is best for their home defense, without understanding the limitations. Often the same people claim to be concerned about overpenetration, without understanding that non-expanding subsonic 300 Blk (or any 30 caliber) penetrates far more than a decent expanding pistol bullet.
 
#70
The answer is not as obvious as you may think.

If he'd asked about full power loads, then it's a slam dunk for the 300, and that is where it's real advantage is. But in subsonics - the choices of effective subsonic 30 caliber bullets is very limited, and even harder to find in loaded ammo. In 9mm on the other hand, we've got a lot of very good choices that perform a lot better than the typical subsonic 300 Blk.

Too many people get hung up on the idea that somehow a subsonic round is best for their home defense, without understanding the limitations. Often the same people claim to be concerned about overpenetration, without understanding that non-expanding subsonic 300 Blk (or any 30 caliber) penetrates far more than a decent expanding pistol bullet.
Thanks for the response Yondering. Your earlier comment echoed some of what I've found researching 300blk for a possible next purchase. My desire for a subsonic hd gun is to do with hearing damage not over penetration, so I'm looking for the most effective option in those parameters.
 
#71
While several of the heavy subsonic rounds do penetrate soft armor well, I think it's important to recognize those as basically a ballistic ice pick; do not expect those to perform like a rifle round, or even like an expanding pistol round. The stability and lack of deformation that allows them to penetrate soft armor also translates to minimal damage in meat unless they strike bone.

When you compare hard armor performance to 7.62x39, that is true with supersonic (full power) 110-130gr loads, but not with subsonics. None of the 300 Blackout loads are particularly good on hard armor compared to 5.56 or 308, but I have found in my own testing that the "barrier blind" Mk319 SOST 130gr bullet works well in the 300 Blackout. I don't know if there are any commercial loads for that bullet though; I bought a supply of the bullets a few years ago and have been testing them in 308 and 300 Blk since then.

Yes, I should have stated that the 7.62x39 is similar to supersonics. I am of the opinion that anything subsonic lacks the kinetic energy to have acceptable terminal effect on targets. There is not specifically developed armor piercing 300blk made to my knowledge. 100% agree people are too hung up on hearing damage and over penetration. A subsonic round is still loud as hell unsuppressed in a building. DAMN YOU HOLLYWOOD!!!!
 

JLL2013

Regular Member
#72
Bottom line is its all in the details here. What's your PCC barrel length? What's your 300blk ammo and barrel length? There's been much ado about issues with expansion (IE it doesn't) when people use handgun ammo in 16inch 9mm guns.

I have a hard time thinking a 9inch suppressed 300blk shooting 220gr subsonics is going to be less effective terminally than a 9inch suppressed 9mm shooting 147gr HST. Not that there's anything wrong with HST.

I could always be wrong though; need to do a side by side test.

The answer is not as obvious as you may think.

If he'd asked about full power loads, then it's a slam dunk for the 300, and that is where it's real advantage is. But in subsonics - the choices of effective subsonic 30 caliber bullets is very limited, and even harder to find in loaded ammo. In 9mm on the other hand, we've got a lot of very good choices that perform a lot better than the typical subsonic 300 Blk.

Too many people get hung up on the idea that somehow a subsonic round is best for their home defense, without understanding the limitations. Often the same people claim to be concerned about overpenetration, without understanding that non-expanding subsonic 300 Blk (or any 30 caliber) penetrates far more than a decent expanding pistol bullet.
 

Yondering

Regular Member
#73
I have a hard time thinking a 9inch suppressed 300blk shooting 220gr subsonics is going to be less effective terminally than a 9inch suppressed 9mm shooting 147gr HST. Not that there's anything wrong with HST.
Why would you have a hard time believing that, unless you just don't believe what's been said already about lack of expansion & damage with 30 caliber subsonics? The 9mm round is operating in the velocity range it's intended for, the 30 caliber is not. That makes a huge difference; one performs as intended and the other is a ballistic ice pick.

All of this info is available elsewhere online as well if you don't want to believe me or others here, and a lot of people besides me have the experience to back it up as well.

Also, the bit you said about 9mm not expanding from 16" barrels has me scratching my head. I think you may have misunderstood something there or something got lost in communication.