Patrol ICW armor

[Lutz501]

Hey Guys, so I have been looking into getting rifle rated ICW armor to wear with my soft armor while on patrol. I wear a concealed soft armor carrier at work in a uniformed patrol setting. I work in a generally urban area with a fair amount of gang activity. I am willing to make compromises in some areas to have a plate I can be comfortable wearing everyday, but at the same time want to have protection against the threats I think I'm most likely to face. I have little worry about a farmer shooting at my with a deer gun, but am much more likely to run into a parolee with an AR or AK. With that in mind I have a few criteria that are must have and a few criteria that would be nice to have. As for price, I am willing to spend money on a worth while product that will do the job and last, but it isn't not a factor.

MUST HAVE:
1. From a reputable company
2. Rated to stop 5.56 ball (M193) and 7.62x39 Ball.
3. needs to to fit in my issued soft armor carrier speed plate pocket that holds an 8x10" special threat trauma plate
4. As light and thin as possible. (the hope is to wear often, get shot never)

NICE TO HAVE:
1. Rated to stop M855 rounds .
2. be no smaller than that 8x10" plate currently in my vest.
3. Have an actual NIJ certification.


So far I have found a few plates that peaked my interests but haven't found the perfect solution yet. I figured, throwing this out there to the crowd maybe someone can show me my unicorn plate or we can determine the best course of action with a little brain-storming.

First, the American Blast Systems ICW plates. They have two separate plates that I considered. The first is their super light, super thin Level III plate. It is only 1.6lbs in the 10x12" size and .5" thick. So it should be even lighter in the 8x10" size that they offer. Lastly, it is NIJ certified as a level III plate. The problem is all of the testing data I can find for it only consists of 7.62x51 testing. I can't find anything where it was tested with 5.56. I've been talking with some of their staff about it being tested against 5.56 but it seemed they just gave me a canned answer to look at their special threat plate. I have sent follow up email, so stay tuned.

https://www.americanblastsystems.com/product-page/nij-level-iii-icw-1-6-lb-ballistic-plate

Which brings us to the second plate; This one is also made by American Blast systems and is very similar to the other plate but they sacrificed that weight and thinness in exchange for the ability to stop M855 rounds. I like this option as it meets all of the "nice to have" requirements, however I'm not sure I'm happy with the increased weight and bulk. Perhaps I am asking for too much?

https://www.americanblastsystems.com/product-page/single-curve-level-iii-green-tip-plate-3-4-lbs


Third plate is made by ShotStop. This plate is also a poly plate. it only comes in two sizes, 7x9 and 10x12. It is the lightest plate of the three but also smaller than the other two. This plate is NIJ certified to stop 5.56, 7.62x39, and .308. I like everything about this plate but wish it came in the 8x10" size so I didn't have to give up any coverage.

https://www.shotstop.net/shop-body-armor/duritium-iii-icw-body-armor-insert


If anyone has any insights into these three options, or wants to share their experiences with similar concepts I would gladly accept any feedback. Or if you have any words of wisdom I'll take those too.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Ech0Sierra]

With rifle plates weight and thickness often have an inverse relationship, for example 0.20" pistol rated AR500 steel plates weighing 4.8 pounds compared to a less than two pound polyethylene plate at 0.5" inches.

Ceramics are the intermediate option, and the Hesco U210 checks almost all your optional boxes stopping AR/AK rounds including harsh exotic threats like 7.62x39 API and 5.56x45 M855A1. It isn't NIJ certified, due to special rifle threat not being an NIJ level. The lightest NIJ certified Level III special threat M855 protective ceramic I know of would be the Hesco 3810. The special threat testing as a bonus includes 7.62x39 and 54R steel core along with .30-06 JSP hunting loads.

However they're both standalone plates so you will get a bit more weight and bulk compared to a dedicated ICW plate. The U210 is 2.4 pounds for an 8x10, 3.7 pounds for a 10x12, and 0.5" thick. The 3810 at 2.5 pounds for an 8x10 however it is 0.98 inches thick

A true ICW ceramic special threat would be something like the LTC 28720 that also stops exotic AR/AK rounds but it's extremely difficult to find size and weight specs since it's more of a MIL/LE plate. Additionally one dealer I managed to find says the smallest they get is SAPI Small which would be an 8.75x11.75 inch plate, I'm not sure if it meets your 8x10 speed plate pocket specs.

EDITED: Mentioned the NIJ certified Hesco 3810. Links below

U210:
https://store.atarmor.com/Hesco_U210_Special_Threat_plate_p/hs-u210.htm
https://sabersolutions.com/products/hesco-u210-special-threat-plates


3810:
https://store.atarmor.com/Hesco_3810_Level_III_Plus_Special_Threat_Plate_p/hs-3810.htm

https://sabersolutions.com/collections/hesco-armor/products/3810-level-iii-standalone

28720:
https://sabersolutions.com/collecti.../28720-stealth-low-profile-operator-plate-icw

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

 

[sawlaw1]

Who makes your soft vest? ICW plates only have their certification when worn in front of ONE type of soft armor. While it's not unreasonable for it to work ICW another system, it's not certified. If you wear a Safariland vest the Hardwire ICW plate is only cert with one of their soft armor packs, but Safariland has good data and testing with most of their soft armor and that plate.

 

[Lutz501]

In regards to the weight/thickness. The plate I have now is .45" in thickness so anything in the .5-.6" ball park is still good to go. I just want to avoid unnecessary weight. I've seen many attractive stand alone plates but can't help but feel like it's a waste to accept the extra weight and bulk of stand alone if it will always be ICW.

The soft armor it is being worn with is a point blank level IIIA. I know that the actual NIJ cert only applies when tested with specific soft armor. The warm fuzzies from the cert really come from knowing that the plate won't de-laminate or fall apart after abuse/extreme temperatures and was tested by a lab that is unbiased.

 

[marcusa]

May be worth at least considering the ATA STOP plates. They are standalone, but are rated for the threats you list (M193, M855, 7.62x39 MSC). They are also reasonably light and thin at ~5lb and ~1/2" thick. Since they are "special threat" plates they won't have a NIJ rating. The folks at ATA are great for answering questions.

 

[ggammell]

May be worth at least considering the ATA STOP plates. They are standalone, but are rated for the threats you list (M193, M855, 7.62x39 MSC). They are also reasonably light and thin at ~5lb and ~1/2" thick. Since they are "special threat" plates they won't have a NIJ rating. The folks at ATA are great for answering questions.

10 pounds of worn all day plates is an absolutely non starter. He’s asking for ICW for a reason. This isn’t a throw on in case of emergency thing.

 

[Lutz501]

.5" thick is great but as ggammell picked up, at 5 pounds a plate that is way too heavy for an all day plate. It seems like there isn't a huge demand for ICW plates which is a shame I think.

Update, I spoke with a rep from American Blast systems. Their super light and thin plate has only been tested with 7.62x51. He said they have no testing data at all for how it handles 5.56 or 7.62x39. Which is a real shame as that would have been the perfect solution for what I'm looking for. The search continues.

And thanks for all the input so far. I'm sure there are others out there looking for something similar and hope this thread can be helpful.

 

[Lutz501]

So, after more correspondence with the American Blast folks, who were very helpful, I decided their armor wasn't what I was looking for. I ended up going with the ShotStop 7x9" plate. Overall I am quite happy with it. It is stupid light and definitely thin enough for what I'm doing.
I've worn the plate for a couple weeks now and can say it is plenty comfortable and in actual use feels no different than the thin trauma plate included with the soft armor.

 

[Grayman]

I understand the OP has found his solution but for anyone looking at this thread for info here’s my .02.

I decided I wanted to carry a rifle plate in the front of my concealed armor relatively early in my cop career. I started off by shoving a plate into my existing concealable carrier but that was an unsustainable and less than ideal solution. I reached out to VelSyst and had them custom cut an LPAC for my soft panels. This was absolutely the right answer from a comfort / durability standpoint. I still have that vest as my range setup...

As for rifle plates I’ve switched a few times over the years. I always stuck with a full 10x12 in either SAPI or shooters cut. (If you’re going to wear a plate then get the coverage you actually need...) Started off with a Hesco 2000SA that was about .4” thick And 5+ lbs. Steve “Pappy” Papenfuhs set me up with an ALAP Plate that shed a pound And a little thickness.

I recently transitioned to a uniform external Carrier from Point Blank and their Alpha Black IIIA soft panels (the bees knees for soft armor right now if you’re curious). About the same time PB got me into a T&E carrier they were also introducing the new Omega rifle plate. My brother from another mother John Ringo set me up with one to try out since he knows I wear a front plate all the time.

The Omega plate is stupid light for a 10x12 Lvl III rated ICW plate. Compared to the plates I was used to it basically disappeared in my carrier. Which was an important factor since the added weight of moving equipment onto the front of the carrier Had me very concerned for overall balance. The Omega does give up 855 protection but for The weight Loss you get I think it’s a fair trade. Make sure you spend the time to understand your armor answers actual protection levels. Armor is a snake oil salesmen’s wet dream and I’ve seen a ton of garbage sold to people who don’t take the time to ask the important questions and do their homework

If you’re going to run a rifle plate up front or go to an external load carrier please make Sure you give some thought to how you’ll “upgrade” your protection for hot calls. Lots of guys still have their trusty plate carrier in the back of the car but never give a thought to how it will work over the rest of their stuff. I have some thoughts on that exact issue but I’ll save it for another thread

 

[Hueyville]

Saw Law said:
"Who makes your soft vest? ICW plates only have their certification when worn in front of ONE type of soft armor. While it's not unreasonable for it to work ICW another system, it's not certified. If you wear a Safariland vest the Hardwire ICW plate is only cert with one of their soft armor packs, but Safariland has good data and testing with most of their soft armor and that plate"

Hardwire, like Protech was purchased by Safariland so a phone call to their reps may help clear up any issues with mixing brand names. Safariland tends to purcjase a large number of smaller companies that bring good products to market. They have some plates marked Safariland, Protech and Safariland/Protech which are exact same plate marketed three different ways. I am a big fan of both Protech and Hardwire plates. Most of my Hardwire are thick but we'll under five pounds even for NIJ 3+ or 3/ICW 4. I use a lot of Protech Special Threat and Multi Threat plates in my covert kits to stop special threat handgun rounds usually in 6"×9" and 8"×10" sizes.

I wear soft covert armor daily. Work, grocery shopping, doctors visits and even going to eat Thanksgiving dinner with mom or Christmas with the family. Originally picked up the habit after saw three incidents inside of a year, one an accidental shooting in a gun store, another when someone handed a full auto uzi to a 14 year old girl who had never fired a weapon at indoor gun range and last a dropped gun at an outdoor range. Like a gun, you won't need your armor till you need it real bad. A covert NIJ 2 kit with thin plate is comfortable enough to wear daily. Always have a plate carrier with a set of NIJ 3+ plates in vehicle in case situation goes crazy. YMMV.

 

[Hueyville]

Accidentally hit "post reply" button before finished. Picture using for my icon is about 25% of the armor that I got in one shipment from a friend who has access to shipping containers and storage units filled with police and military surplus armor. He had purchased three storage lockers with fire and police equipment, notified the municipality it belonged to and they never responded so he had filled a six yard dumpster with body armor and already sent to the landfill before he told me about it. He thought it was illegal for him to own and was only half way through first locker with two more lockers yet to sort. I bought all I could at what I felt was fair price and he shipped doube the amount I had on my list. Somehow he manages to find a locker or two per year now and following the withdrawal of troops from Iraq he purchased several storage lockers of new, unissued military armor of all flavors from contractor issue, Army, Marine Corp and USSOCOM special ops issue armor.

I introduced him to some folks who were more able to help him move large amounts and helped him price it and to this day I get first pick from any bulk finds he makes buying sealed lockers and storage containers. Up till Christmas I had about 150 overt rifle kits and 250 covert pistol rated kits above any possible personal needs of mine had been trying to sell for years. By March was getting multiple requests per day till now all I have are mine and wife's two premium personal kits purchased new, not surplus, a surplus kit or two for all of our vehicles and about a dozen spare overt miltary kits and same in covert kits anovel our personal kits for an emergency. Sold just over 300 pieces of armor in past few months with Chinese Flu and riot panics.

In my premium personal kit am currently using a pair of TenCate Multi-light CXP-810 10"×12" plates which are NIJ 3/ICW 4. Had an incident where my neighbor was scared and spraying his and my yard using a Remington 742 in 30-06 with ten round magazines trying to kill a snake. Moved to Georgia from a state with few snakes and was tough on black rifles so found some high cap mags for his 30-06. Wjen moved down south he was suprised to realize he could hunt deer in his back yard, snakes were common and is a very poor shot. Got me to thinking about how many will be using a hunting rifle rather than a light fighting rifle or medium battle rifle for defense. Around here likelyhood of encountering a 30-06 or 300 Win Mag is high so my primary kit has plates that will stop such rifles and the TenCate plates only weigh 5.07 pounds each. We have a TenCate armor plant in N.E. Georgia now to supply military and police with U.S. made armor as required by many contracts and managed to buy a stack of plates after a plant tour.

I have a pair of the Protech Tactical X-Cal-XP plates which are in a covert vest due to their 0.40" total thickness even if weigh almost 5.5 pounds each. With properly tailored sport coat can wear the kit covert when working church security but look like I weigh 200 pounds instead of 165 pounds. Only issue is they will not pass the NIJ drop test and still stop a NIJ 3 threat. If your diving for cover on pavement they would be easy to break and why I avoid predominately ceramic plates almost as much as steel. Have a pair of Dyneema plates in my lightweight kit which also has flotation kit as live on a 55,000 acre lake where boating is common and if my road was blocked boat would be only way to get to other side of bridge for medical help or such. Scored a Navy special ops carrier with soft armor and pull tabs for flotation activation or quick removal then added the Dyneeema plates. Wife cannot tolerate heavy armor and both her overt kits have NIJ 3 Dyneema plates. She has the flexible Protech Dyneema Multi Threat plates in her covert vests as womens shape does not do well with rigid plates for long periods of time unless are made for women and very well fitted.

Personally I would not go with an ICW plate to get just basic rifle protection. I would find a stand alone NIJ 3 plate or one that had ICW 4 protection if used with soft armor for evendors more peach of mind. Over past two years I have acquired over 2,000 of the new M855A1 5.56 rounds and 1,000 M80A1 with the larger exposed hardened penetrator over M855. See it for sale regularly on Gunbroker and a few of the companies that demill military ammo have been selling both M855A1 and M80A1 projectiles to reloaders. Look at all the copper solid bullets from Barnes, LeHigh and others out now both as loaded ammo and components. Just a decade or so ago a NIJ 2 kit would stop almost any 9mm round. Now there are dozens of 9mm special threat rounds can buy off the shelf at any gun store that will defeat NIJ3a armor. Bullet technology is growing at leaps and bounds so consider current research projectiles will be in loaded ammo in a few years and commonly available.

I have some nice NIJ 3+ plates that weigh 2.5 to 4.5 pounds will keep and use for backup or emergency field use carried behind the seat of my truck. That said my primary kits are all NIJ 4 now due to their being more hunting rifles around than military style carbines and I consider the avid hunter with a 300 Win Mag more likely to put a center mass hit on me than a gang banger with an AK or AR. I just acquired a BN36 which is a larger than AR 10 chassis rifle in 30-06 from Noreen Arms. Soon as they have receivers back in stock plan to build a pair in 25-06. Would most likely be using my TRG 42 if working from a rooftop hide and assume most astute shooters would use something similar so while I keep a NIJ 3+ rated plate carrier in my truck if were on a call out would defiantly grab a NIJ 4 kit on the way out the door.

 

[Lutz501]

Hueyville, you kinda completely derailed the conversation. This thread is dedicated specifically to armor that can be worn all day in a patrol setting. Had you read any of the original posts at all that should have been abundantly clear. You're not contributing to this conversation and your walls of unrelated text will make it harder for people looking for answers to find them. I'm sure there are other threads you can brag about your overt kits.

 

[HighTower]

New Hesco ICW NIJ III is coming out soon.