WMLs other than Surefire, Streamlight, Elzetta??

leozinho

Member
Hi all,

The most common WMLs (for a carbine) seem to come from Surefire and Streamlight (with perhaps Elzetta a distant third).

Since most flashaholics will tell you that Surefire and Streamlight are not on the cutting edge*, I'm curious if anyone has looked into or experimented with lights from Olight, Klarus, Nitecore, Eagletac, Armytek, etc.

For example, take the Streamlight Protac 1L which produces 180 lumens from a AA battery (which I think is on the low end of necessary lumens for an AR-mounted light). Other companies are getting 500+ lumens from a single AA in the same dimensions.

However, from a quick perusal of different makers, it seems hard to find exactly what I want - like a forward clicky protected (shrouded) tailcap and a protected bezel.

And of course, reliability is more of a question mark with brands other than Surefire and Streamlight.

Wondering if anyone else has found something they found suitable.


*Cutting edge to some means innovative user interface or USB rechargeable (both of which are a negative for a WML, in my opinion.)

*Surefire Titan Plus is certainly cutting edge but isn't suitable as a WML.
 

MrMurphy

Regular Member
Not worried about the newest cool guy toy.

Definitely worried that the shit will work when the day comes. I've been using Surefires on my issued/personal rifles since the 6P was the hot shit and the G2 was still pretty new, and if you had the M952 you were Special Forces and got so much pussy it was probably illegal.

These days I'm using a Fury on my rifle and a 300U on my pistol. Because they work, every time.

A clicky tailcap and a DG switch are about the only upgrades I'd want. Ruggedness and surviving 10-12 hours bouncing around in a Humvee or patrol vehicle (a PIU these days), getting whacked into doorways, etc beats everything else for me.

I'd consider Elzetta since they seem to do well, and Streamlight's handhelds have actually held up very well for as an issued handheld light. I've heard good things about Olight, but I sure as shit would test the fuck out of one before EVER using it as a WML.
 

leozinho

Member
I'd consider Elzetta since they seem to do well, and Streamlight's handhelds have actually held up very well for as an issued handheld light. I've heard good things about Olight, but I sure as shit would test the fuck out of one before EVER using it as a WML.

Agreed on the reliability. I don't even like pressure pads as they add another part that can foul.

But sometimes the allegiance to Surefire makes me think of how some of us viewed Larue products 10 years ago. You had folks swearing there was nothing better and there never would be anything better and they would never consider anything else. Meanwhile companies were making just as good and arguably better mounts. It just took the market a while to recognize it. For all I know, the same is happening with lights right now.

Or maybe it isn't.
 

TSiWRX

Newbie
^ This. There is some inertia to be had, no doubt.

Fenix and Nitecore have been on the GTG list for SMEs such as Paul Howe (REF: http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread...dual-Tactics-11-21-14-11-23-14-Nacogdoches-TX) for a few years.

Similarly, some of the high-end semi-custom stuff, such as Malkoff and Oveready, have also been accepted by the "serious shooters" community for some time. Elzetta, for example, used/uses Malkoff heads, as does currently Arasaka - the latter of which also uses the Don Mcleish "McClicky" shrouded tail-cap.

But back to those imported brands: the truth is that a lot of the imported brands have been offering lights that are quite rugged, perform well, and are priced much more attractively than the recognized tactical/first-responder place-holders of Surefire and Streamlight. Like you mentioned, leozinho, those flashaholics on CPF rarely get excited anymore (this was not the case some 12 years ago, though! :p) about any Surefire or Streamlight offerings because, for the most part, they truly are not on that bleeding edge.

That said, these same import makes - Nitecore, Olight, etc., have also had some real duds in terms of durability/reliability in the past, even in terms of only light (no pun intended) usage such as every-day-carry. My plumber is both a flashaholic as well as a firearms enthusiast, and he loves the small Olight Batons for his day-job use - and he keeps buying them for that purpose, despite having lost several to attrition (drops, bumps) over the years. Overall, when buying these off-brands, I really don't want to use them gun-mounted, and I look hard at their physical-build specs as to whether it'll be suitable for my intended use. The Nitecore MH12, for example, has been a wonderful walking-the-dog light for me for the past two years, but that rubber press-seal cover for its charging port would make it a liability for anything other than just this kind of recreational use.

Something else to consider also is warranty/service follow-up. Surefire's become much harder to get a hold of lately, with hour-long C/S call-center wait-times and an embarrassingly (and frustrating) non-working queue call-back system - and has been struggling with lead-times of up to 6 weeks on repairs/replacements. Yet, they are still solid when you do get a hold of them, and you can definitely still count on that warranty service, no matter how slow. Malkoff? Dude, you can flag a product-notification on their website for an item that's shown as OOS, and you'll magically get an e-mail the next day, saying that they've got one for you. ;):cool: And yes, this has been my personal experience - not just what I've read on the Intrawebz.

On the flip slide, look at what those who have claimed service on their foreign-made items have reported - a lack of communication at all, frequent miscommunications, lack of appropriate service. Yes, there's something to be said for having saved quite a bit of money up-front, particularly when these commodities are now quite durable/reliable to begin with...but for those who really put their items to hard use, having the downstream support of a company like Surefire is something that many of us would gladly pay for.
 

TXLEO

Member
Reference Fenix. I had a TK16 1000 lumen on a Haley Strategic Thorntail. After less the 1k rounds the click tail cap doesn't work, only the momentary strobe button does. I'm gonna see if Fenix will fix it but I've since put a Surefire m600p on and won't be going back. The Fenix will be a house light or a backup at work. Fenix was purchased in March of 2016.
 

MrMurphy

Regular Member
I spent a year or so working retail at REI before going to the police academy. i'd been a member for 30 years so it was appropriate....

Saw a lot of Fenix lights get sold. Saw quite a few Fenix lights come back, primarily from guys going to wet/humid enviroments (a team of guys who went to the Amazon became Fenix doubters in a hurry) because apparently the rubber o-rings weren't doing their jobs and the lights were dying. The Amazon team guys had 3 Fenixes die on them within 2 days of getting into their AO for whatever they were doing down there. None of the lights went swimming, just the overall rainfall, humidity, etc apparently screwed with their circuitry enough they failed and could not be made to work later.
They may have gotten better (this was 2013) but for serious no-shit use, I still stick with Surefire and some Streamlights (i've use one of the larger Stinger LED/HD 600 or so lumen models as a duty light for 2 years and it's still going strong in some pretty bad conditions).
 

leozinho

Member
Well, my research hasn't turned up a newer alternative to Surefire/ Streamlight/Elzetta with the exception being Malkoff (which wasn't known to me but definitely isn't a secret in the flashlight community.)

There are some modders doing interesting things - like Pflexpro, who will provide you with a potted XML-2 or various other heads, but you have to use 18650s, which makes it a no go. I want to run primaries for reliability and availability.

Nailbender/customlites.com has an option http://customlites.com/TacLites-MWL-2-Tac-MWL-2.htm but it's even more expensive than Elzetta. You can use his potted heads, but you still have to sort through which heads can be run with two CR123s (most seem to be for 18650) and you'll need a Surefire host unless you want to be are at the mercy of cheap Chinese hosts (Solarforce).

Since starting the thread, I came across the newish Streamlight Protac 1L-1AA. It's probably known to others here. Takes a single AA or a single CR123. High is 350 Lumens with CR123. Relatively small form factor.

I don't know if its my ideal WML but it will probably be my next purchase.
 

Greg "Sully" Sullivan

Established
Vendor
VIP
Over the last few decades we have used the Surefire Millenium 510 & 511 variants with great success, very tough lights for the average Patrol Officer imho. We have also used Surefire Scout lights, that have served us well. When Surefire started changing things from the traditional incandescent light, to the LED type, we played with them. What we found is that the incandescent gave us long distances (300-400yds) across open fields, where the LED didn't go that far. We also found that the incandescent would cut through smoke & dust from gravel roads better, where the LED would get blocked by the smoke & dust. We recently started using the Surefire P3X Fury lights, which offer 1000 Lumens, which are brighter than any of the previous lights we have used, it beams light 300yds across open fields, and so far it works well in smoke inside rooms where we have set off distraction devices, but I haven't tried them in dusty conditions as of yet. I am not sure the exact technology of what Surefire has changed in the P3X Fury, so far it is impressive.

CY6
Greg Sullivan "Sully"
SLR15 Rifles
TheDefensiveEdge.com
(763) 712-0123
 

Sasso

Newbie
"Sully" I have found the same thing to be true, that lesser incandescents seem to offer better push threw airborne particulate than higher powered led lights. One thing I did see was a comparison of the newer led lights coloring. I first noticed this when one of our guys showed up with some cheap led on his issued commando in the shoot house at night, as the AI I could hardly identify the targest I had set out do to the extreme blue hue of the light he was using. So that got me thinking and I compared several lights I owned, and the incandesents with a more yellow/warm color seemed to cut threw any smoke, fog, dust much better than the led counter parts with the cooler/blue color.

I wish I was smart enough to really understand why this was my perception, and if there was a way to "warm up/yellow" the light from the led lights that are throwing way more lumens, maybe some one with more experience/knowledge can educate me.
 

425Ranger

Newbie
I'm sure the surefires are great. We went with insight WMLx. Easily removable to use as a personal light. 500cp with good throw. Our 1st priority was reliability then ease of switching from user to user as we have patrol car installed carbines. I have an M900 as my personal defense light, but it doesn't work for my Dept.

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk
 

B0308

Amateur
I've been a Surefire guy since the hand held Laser Products days. Tried one Insight WML 500. Light use, on a Colt 6920, in the midst of a range session (about 275 rounds of factory 55gr ammo on the light) I saw part moving forward of the firing line. The body failed, the light moved forward. To their credit, I got a new in package replace meant from them, but I'll sell it, before using it for any serious purpose. YMMV
 
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