Why are bushmasters considered sub quality?

JUDAN

Member
Anyways...

http://www.militaryindustrialcomplex.com/contract_detail.asp?contract_id=1004

ARMY

Bushmaster Firearms International L.L.C.*, Windham, Maine, was awarded on March 12, 2007, a $5,411,132 firm-fixed-price contract for Bushmaster rifle with 20 inch barrels, Bushmaster carbine with 11.5 inch barrel, M16A3 spare 30 round magazines, Bushmaster rifle contractor support package, Bushmaster carbine crates for 11.5 carbines, crates for M16A3 spares, and crates for Bushmaster rifles. Work will be performed in Windham, Maine, and is expected to be completed by Nov. 20, 2007. Contract funds will not expire at the end of the current fiscal year. This was a sole source contract initiated on Feb. 11, 2005. The U.S. Army Tank-Automotive and Armaments Command, Rock Island, Ill., is the contracting activity (W52H09-07-C-0086).
 

PlasticMag

Amateur
Yes, and as I said before, those rifles were NOT for military issue. Bushmaster rifles are not issued rifles. Those were intended for either Foreign Military Sales or conversion into the EST 2000 system by a TACOM contractor. Converted weapons use modified magazines and require spares.
 

JUDAN

Member
This is why your RATS arguments don't work either. Proof and documentation is needed. Otherwise its hearsay.

I showed various documentation. It's not just accepted it here...

In his 5.56x45mm Timeline, Daniel Watters states that in 1990:
April: The US Army awards a contract to Bushmaster for 65 carbines having "all the physical and technical characteristics of the M4 Carbine."


http://www.thegunzone.com/556dw-10.html
 

JUDAN

Member
https://www.cybershooters.org/?page_id=540


Bushmaster Firearms entered the scene during Operation Desert Shield. With the imminent prospect of war, the military suddenly found themselves with a large demand for rifles. Many Army units were still armed with the M16A1, the replacement of which had only begun in 1986. With a large demand for M16A2s and M4s both from the US forces and allied forces, the Dept. of Defense approved a contract to buy a few dozen M4 carbines from Bushmaster Firearms of Maine.

Consequently, Bushmaster and Colt’s are the only companies to have supplied M4s to the US [FN was finally allowed to after the TDP was handed over to the DoD in 2011 – Ed.]. Bushmaster M4s have distinctive markings:
 

PlasticMag

Amateur
So, background time: I'm an Army logistics officer. I deal with Army property on the regular, almost like it's my job. I know the contract, I'm familiar with it. About three years ago it came up before on another site (ARFCom?) and I looked in to it. I e-mailed our local TACOM LAR (Logistics Assistance Representative) about it and he checked to humor my curiosity. NONE of the Bushmasters are in Army inventory as functional firearms. The ones that came out of Bushmaster's DoD contracts which are in DoD inventory are either for FMS (so, not issued to US troops) or are packaged as part of the EST 2000 trainer (so, non-functional). That was 5 computers and 2 duty stations ago, so you'll have to take my word for it. I'm not going to go into FEDLOG (our standardized inventory reporting system) to pull the NSNs because, frankly, I think you're stuck on stupid and you wouldn't understand what I showed you if I broke it out into crayon colors.

If Bushmasters were issued to the military you'd see them. They don't exist. There are some non-Colt M16A2 lowers floating around, but not many. There are no non-Colt/FN M16A4/M4/M4A1s floating around in inventory in Big Army. The only other company outside of those two to get a contract was Sabre Defense, and they only delivered to the Navy and Marines and for FMS (and they did not complete the contract due to their own legal issues).
http://www.tactical-life.com/news/sabre-defence-awarded-m16-contract-to-support-troops/

Here is what happens to Bushmasters that get sold through FMS:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/08/14/georgian-bushmaster-m4/
 

jryock

Amateur
While I can't speak to the physical presence of Bushmasters (BM) in inventory like @PlasticMag can, I can say that the contracts are pretty straight forward concerning M4's supplied for use in the military. Colt has had exclusive rights to supply M4s for military use up until the recent contract that allows limited access to the TDP so the military can let a sec0nd-source contract (e.g. the FN contract). Colt still owns the TDP for the next couple decades and gets 5% of the second-source contract value. The only legal way for BM to provide military issued M4s during the time frame in question would be if Colt subcontracted to BM and allowed them to keep their markings.
 

JUDAN

Member
[QUOT
In what unit, MOS, and in what capacity? Provide a full answer.

E="PlasticMag, post: 17633, member: 1607"]So, background time: I'm an Army logistics officer. I deal with Army property on the regular, almost like it's my job. I know the contract, I'm familiar with it. About three years ago it came up before on another site (ARFCom?) and I looked in to it. I e-mailed our local TACOM LAR (Logistics Assistance Representative) about it and he checked to humor my curiosity. NONE of the Bushmasters are in Army inventory as functional firearms. The ones that came out of Bushmaster's DoD contracts which are in DoD inventory are either for FMS (so, not issued to US troops) or are packaged as part of the EST 2000 trainer (so, non-functional). That was 5 computers and 2 duty stations ago, so you'll have to take my word for it. I'm not going to go into FEDLOG (our standardized inventory reporting system) to pull the NSNs because, frankly, I think you're stuck on stupid and you wouldn't understand what I showed you if I broke it out into crayon colors.

If Bushmasters were issued to the military you'd see them. They don't exist. There are some non-Colt M16A2 lowers floating around, but not many. There are no non-Colt/FN M16A4/M4/M4A1s floating around in inventory in Big Army. The only other company outside of those two to get a contract was Sabre Defense, and they only delivered to the Navy and Marines and for FMS (and they did not complete the contract due to their own legal issues).
http://www.tactical-life.com/news/sabre-defence-awarded-m16-contract-to-support-troops/

Here is what happens to Bushmasters that get sold through FMS:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2013/08/14/georgian-bushmaster-m4/[/QUOTE]Actu

Just because you have not seen one doesn't mean they don't exist now do they?
 

JUDAN

Member
If you are incapable of providing actual answers beyond vague hints and rumors to back up your claims, you don't need to be here.

Your trolling is about to be banned.

Go ahead a ban it's all biased here anyways. Just like the comments on facebook about the Roland Special.

You discredit my information saying its paid endorsements. I'll tell you what though I get paid per results not like you guys...
 

PlasticMag

Amateur
Just because you have not seen one doesn't mean they don't exist now do they?

So you glossed over the part where I said that TACOM (that's the Tank-automotive and Armaments Command mentioned in the contract), who owns every rifle in the Army outside of special SOF-procured items, told me that they aren't in Army inventory as functioning firearms... My post might as well have been Greek to you then. You are a special kind of stupid.
 

JUDAN

Member
So you glossed over the part where I said that TACOM (that's the Tank-automotive and Armaments Command mentioned in the contract) told me that they aren't in Army inventory... My post might as well have been Greek to you then. You are a special kind of stupid.


Guess you missed the other 90 that got sold in the past page...
 

JUDAN

Member
Bushmaster did provide a small number of M4s to the military at the start of Desert Storm.

But since I don't have it notarized it doesn't make it valid....
 

JUDAN

Member
BOOM WHAT DO YOU KNOW MY FRIEND WHO IS 18D CONFIRMED THIS!!!


If you have the chance go to the new Spec Ops/Airborne museum off-post and look in the desert storm section. There are some pics on the right hand side as you are facing the door. In one of them a SF troop is holding a carbine that seems to be a bushmaster. I was last there about 8 months ago so it should still be the same.
www.bragg.army.mil/rbc-tng/training/T_musSOF.htm
 
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