Scope brand lines

My understanding is that at least some scope brands have different quality tiers depending on line. For example Vortex starts out with Crossfire, then progresses up through Copperhead and Strike Eagle then Razor line which is where they can be considered as a good option for more serious use. My understanding is that Leupold, Burris, Bushnell and others have a similar system. Is that accurate and if so, where do the lines for serious use fall for the brands that are worth considering? Alternatively, how can one determine the line without asking on a case by case basis? There's lots of scope options out there, and it's easy to get overwhelmed, so basically I'm looking for a way to know where to start looking and see what options will fit my use.
Secondary question, if I may, are Swampfox optics worth considering? Specifically their LPVOs.

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marcusa

Member
Unfortunately, every brand handles the divisions differently within its own product line(s) and every optic has its own advantages and tradeoffs within a given price range. There's not really a way to know if an optic is "good-to-go" without evidence or testing it out yourself. Specs can be misleading since they may or may not be accurate, and optics (even LPVOs) have internal components that need to be designed, sourced, produced, fit together and QC checked. The spec sheet won't tell you that "Brand X" saves $10 per optic over "Brand Y" by using a lower-grade epoxy that may be less resistant to vibration or temperature cycling.

Fortunately, there are lots of optics from reputable brands that have considerable run time and whose pros/cons are well described. The Vortex Razor LPVOs are an excellent example. With some searching you will probably find that the optic has good glass and is durable with an easy-to-use reticle with a tradeoff on weight within its price range.

What is your definition of "serious use", and what characteristics do you value most in your setup? My general recommendations when it comes to LPVOs are:
1. Define what you realistically intend to use the optic for. If you plan to shoot off a bench once a month at 25yd with no pressure, a Strike Eagle may be fantastic. If you plan to be jumping out of vehicles and need to identify threats at distance, the Razor (or equivalent) may be a better choice. Use and reticle choice matter as well.
2. Stick to trusted brands that have run time on their product. They will probably have more reliable warranty support as well should something be off with your optic. They are also less likely to disappear leaving you SOL in 2 years when something breaks. If it's an optic you plan to depend on, why be a guinea pig? Chances are good you will save money, time and frustration by sticking to the brands that have been around.
3. You get what you pay for. Quality materials, fabrication, assembly and quality checks cost more. If two optics have similar specs but one costs significantly less, that difference is probably accounted for in materials and quality checks.
4. There are always trade offs. For example, the Nightforce NX8 is super small and lightweight, but the eye box is very tight and the reticle is not well suited to precision. It is a close quarters focused optic which happens to have 8x high end magnification. Refer to #1.
5. If you are on the fence between two "levels" of a brand offering, it's almost always worth saving a little longer to pick up the higher end optic.
6. Lastly, don't skimp on the mount and account for this in your budget. A cheap, crummy mount holding a quality optic is like putting corner store used tires on your race car - all the horsepower in the world doesn't matter if you can't put it on the road.
 
I'm basically just looking for a starting point for any optic that I may consider for serious use. When I say serious use, I mean something that one can rely on for defensive use. It can take the type of abuse one can expect to see from a gun that is actually used and not trotted out twice a year. Banged on trees, dropped, put on a 4 wheeler, shot with heavy loads/large calibers, etc. I have a couple of guns I'm looking to fit with optics and just wanted to try and figure out how to gauge where I should start looking at. Would price point be a better place to start? Maybe don't look at optics who MSRP under say, $500? Or am I better off asking about each optic for individual uses? I'm not on the cusp of buying anything yet, because I don't know what I'm going to be looking at for costs, so I'm trying to find a good starting point. It doesn't serve me to look at say, an optic from Vortex Crossfire line, as I know they're not as vetted for anything rigorous, though I do have some on hunting rifles. The warranty is really only a secondary concern for me, as I'd rather not need it. I don't mind saving a couple bucks on something that's just going for a walk to the stands two weeks a year and sending away for a warranty when I need to, but I have guns intended for other uses that I would rather spend more on, and get a better optic that is known for its reliability. For clarity, I'm not looking solely for LPVO optics, that's just one that I'm considering, but I am looking for a starting point so I can weed out the lesser options and narrow my choices down. I can ask 100 people for LPVO options and get 110 different answers, and that's what I'm trying to avoid.

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BenNL

Newbie
I'd say, start with setting a baseline for your needs. What range are you most likely to use it at? What does the area you live in look like. Urban, rural, dense woods etc. LPVO magnification is useful for PID, but if your maximum range is 100m getting a good RDS gets the job done. And can always be upgraded with a 3x, or 6x magnifier later on.
 
I'm not asking how to choose a scope based on my needs. I'm trying to ascertain where the mark for a quality option begins. $100, $500? Is there a line within certain manufacturers? Like Vortex, you start at the Razor line of scopes. Where is that mark for Leupold, Burris, etc.? I know what I want in scopes as far as capability and features. I'm basically trying to sort out the options that aren't up to standard.

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BenNL

Newbie
I can understand that, but that depends on the type of optic. Acceptable quality RDS will be cheaper than acceptable quality LPVO. I wouldn't even look at a $500 LPVO, but $500 RDS can be pretty decent quality.
 
RDS aren't anything I'm considering right now, I'm just interested in scopes. LPVO or even medium powered. Starting anywhere from around 1-3x and going up to 10. Before I settle on exact needs, I am trying to get a ballpark figure on costs, I don't know the low end, the starting point. I'm not setting a budget then looking, I want to kind of do the opposite and know where to start looking so I can go from there and determine a budget. I am not saying that money isn't an object, because it is, but I would rather have a goal to work towards and wait just a little longer to get something that I'm happy with.

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marcusa

Member
Still a tough question to answer...but I'll throw out a number. $900 - that's about the MSRP of a Vortex Viper PST, a Steiner P4Xi, or a quality red dot/magnifier combo. Your options get significantly better in the $1,300 range in terms of weight, optical clarity, reticles/focal planes, and other options (Sig Tango 6T, Steiner T5Xi, Vortex Razor, Leupold Patrol 6HD, Trijicon Credo and Accupoint). Again that's just for the optic...factor in another $200-400 for a quality mount.
 

BenNL

Newbie
RDS aren't anything I'm considering right now, I'm just interested in scopes. LPVO or even medium powered. Starting anywhere from around 1-3x and going up to 10. Before I settle on exact needs, I am trying to get a ballpark figure on costs, I don't know the low end, the starting point. I'm not setting a budget then looking, I want to kind of do the opposite and know where to start looking so I can go from there and determine a budget. I am not saying that money isn't an object, because it is, but I would rather have a goal to work towards and wait just a little longer to get something that I'm happy with.

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That clears things up. I would agree with marcusa $900 at the bottom end.
 

pointblank4445

Established
I'm not asking how to choose a scope based on my needs. I'm trying to ascertain where the mark for a quality option begins. $100, $500? Is there a line within certain manufacturers? Like Vortex, you start at the Razor line of scopes. Where is that mark for Leupold, Burris, etc.? I know what I want in scopes as far as capability and features. I'm basically trying to sort out the options that aren't up to standard.

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This is all very subjective. If we're not realistically playing for "blood or money" it really is just a matter of what resources you can spend and what margins you're willing to accept.
Vortex knows and acknowledges they have different tiers for different reasons/markets. If you're here on P&S, many would tell you there's no point in looking below the Razor HD line...while some may say the next step down PST is as low as you'd want to go.
I think most would agree the P4Xi is an accepted industry minimum for a serious use optic...though it sucks they keep bumping the price up for what it is.
Leupold is all over the board on their stuff and will yield with widest range of opinions due to their expansive optics suite, number of units out there, time in the market and the number of issued units where some guys ONLY have context with Leupold and maybe a few others. There's expensive Leupolds I would never touch (with good reason and experience) that people with MORE time on me love.

At this point in the game,
Vortex HD 2 1-6x24 is the best bang for your buck at $1000-1300 depending on which config and where you buy (and what cool guy discounts you can get). Below that you roll the dice or make compromises. IMHO, if you cant stomach that ceiling, I'd opt for a higher tier red dot until you can save for something that has juice worth the squeeze.
 
Thanks for the reply.
I have no problem waiting to get what I want. I hit some great deals doing that, the only reason I have the Razors I have is because of a great deal.
There's just so many options out there, and so few that I can actually examine first hand.
Since you brought up Leupold, what do you think of the VX-3 line?

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Hayden

Newbie
I have several Nightforce Scopes in the SHV line. I've been very happy with them. My favorite LPVO is the Trijicon 1x8x28. It has a Red Dot Rectical in it. Prob my all around favorite scope really.

Hayden.
 
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