@Brendog1776 is there a particular reason you are so aggressively going after Matt (or anyone else on the forum for that matter)? I understand wanting info, but you are taking to clingy ex levels of "PAY ATTENTION TO ME."
Having read all of this I've come out more confused about armor, and distrustful of anyone selling it.
Not an expert here, just someone trying to build a functional understanding.
That's one of the biggest issues with the armor industry (from the perspective of someone who knows just enough to know they don't know nearly enough).Having read all of this I've come out more confused about armor, and distrustful of anyone selling it.
Not an expert here, just someone trying to build a functional understanding.
Having read all of this I've come out more confused about armor, and distrustful of anyone selling it.
Not an expert here, just someone trying to build a functional understanding.
I get that, but Matt has been looking for a write-up that addressed this and it is looking like FB ate a bunch of posts in the P&S facebook groups (not just the one he was looking for, all in all about 20). He is looking for an alternate link, while managing the forums, FB groups, and working his actual job. So dial it back a bit, let people look for the shit they were referencing, and quit acting like he claimed that JFK was coming back to save America.The reason I have been asking matt for a link, is that if someone makes a claim, they should back it up. If not, why should I believe that individual?
Dial back asking him to provide a link from a month ago? Maybe you should let him respond instead of making up excuses. It seems to me you are the one with the clingy ex thing going on here.I get that, but Matt has been looking for a write-up that addressed this and it is looking like FB ate a bunch of posts in the P&S facebook groups (not just the one he was looking for, all in all about 20). He is looking for an alternate link, while managing the forums, FB groups, and working his actual job. So dial it back a bit, let people look for the shit they were referencing, and quit acting like he claimed that JFK was coming back to save America.
So new guy with some questions here:
1)As I understand it, the NIJ standard has not been adopted formally yet because NIJ has been looking at aligning with other standards. (DoD, EU, etc.) This meant a potential revision of the number of calibers that a plate would have to stop as well as potential changes to the shot patterns. With that being said, how can we say that "the standard is known" until it is formally published? What benefits are to testing to the .07 draft when your test report specifies the following:
"This test report may not be used to claim product certification, approval, or endorsement by NVLAP, NIST, NIJ or any agency of the Federal Government. This report contains data that are not covered by the NVLAP accreditation. This test was performed in accordance with the specification requirements listed in addition to any customer testing modifications or requests. The test results properly reflect the ballistic performance of the listed sample. This test report shall not be reproduced except in full without written approval of National Technical Systems."
Unless that is legal boilerplate on the part of the test center, it sounds like your test results do not back the claim of '.07 tested.' Am I reading that wrong?
2) For the level III+ question: The current information I am seeing from the NIJ shows IIIA and III, no IIIA+ or III+. I looked in the 0101.06 to try and find it: no mention there either. The only place I saw it mentioned in my searches: were on the websites of armor companies. As a consumer, I can see how that would be confusing when there is no mention of it in the source documentation to know what it has been ballistically tested to stop. If the + is referring to a special threat, I don't see that mentioned in your sales pitch Matt referenced apart from this:
"After all, the new standard for III+ plates is the ability to defeat the m855, xm193, 7.62×39 MSC and the .308 M80 NATO round, which this plate does with flying colors."
Where is this "new standard" coming from that you mention?
My point is this: if we are a body armor manufacturer trying to differentiate ourselves from the major competetitors in our industry (e.g. Avon ceradyne, TenCate, Point Blank, Hesco) and we see they are saying things that add to the confusion, why are we going to do the same thing? And why do you claim it is on the NIJ, when you are the salesman selling a product? If you know there is a problem with the designation, why even bring it up in your sales pitch?
Thanks for your time.
I'm sorry that a forum mod is attempting to moderate things. Like I said, there is a reason he hasnt posted the link your requested. In the mean time you've come off as a condescending douche for no apparent reason other than you seem to have an issue with Matt.Dial back asking him to provide a link from a month ago? Maybe you should let him respond instead of making up excuses. It seems to me you are the one with the clingy ex thing going on here.
I appreciate the apology, there was no need for your name calling from earlier and now. All I had done was ask for a link to said source, if replying back and discussing the subject on armor and certifications is being a douche in your eyes, maybe being on a forum and a moderator isn't for you. If it is ok with you, I would like to get back to the subject at hand and wait for matts link, that is supposdley well documented, but may have been deleted.I'm sorry that a forum mod is attempting to moderate things. Like I said, there is a reason he hasnt posted the link your requested. In the mean time you've come off as a condescending douche for no apparent reason other than you seem to have an issue with Matt.
By dial it back I was attempting to give you time to develope some patience in light of the info I posted for you. If that is outside of your abilities, let me know and I can assist you.
No, the lesson here is don't engage people with your attitude. There are enough people that remember the discussion in question to end this.Well, hopefully a lesson learned here is don't make claims you cannot substantiate.