Your carry/Self Defense ammo issued/choice?

[Brad Trittipo]

Issued Ammo:

Gen 4 Glock 22 w/ TRL: Federal Tactical in 160 or 180 gr, which ever they send us.

Rifle: Federal 55 gr Poly Tip

Shotgun: What ever patterns or groups the best. I carry Remington Standard 2 3/4" Rifled Slugs only as my shotgun hates OO.

 

[DocGKR]

The Federal 55 gr non-bonded PT ammo is one of the worst choices an LE agency could make.

If you 12 ga hates 00, try the Federal #1 buckshot, 15 pellet, 1100 fps "Flight Control" load (LE132-1B) as it offers IDEAL terminal performance for LE and self-defense use and is the best option for those who need to use shot shells for such purposes.

 

[Brad Trittipo]

We use the Federal 55 gr non-bonded PT ammo because another local agency also issues it. It was chosen due to the "reduced" over penetration as that was the original selling point 10-12 years ago. I was even told by an ATK rep to not use it a few years ago at an ammo demo. I have personally had two failures of the round on deer after car/deer accidents requiring additional rounds to be used. On the other hand 68 gr hollow point and even 55 grain lead nose, both Blackhills, have worked with out issue.

I have shot the flight control at classes and was impressed with the patterns and distances that the round will hold that pattern. I would like to carry some as an option, but have had a hard time locating it.

 

[Eagle1]

Just an update on my original posting. I contacted the manufacture and spoke to them about the issue with the G2. I was told that my batch was not in that batch of G2 that had issues. So I being the sinic that I am, I went ahead and switched out my guys to the HST 147 grain +P because that is all I could find at the time. I did order the standard 147 grain HST and was told it will be almost a year until I get it. Now we are waiting...

 

[KMo1205]

Carry ammo is Hornady Critical Duty, 135 gr. +P. My home defense ammo is the lighter Hornady Critical Defense, 115 gr. 9mm. I've been floating around a couple different rifle rounds and haven't really settled with the "right" round. Right now for home defense is Federal 55 gr. BTHP TRU and my carry ammo is 62 gr. PSP. I'm not as concerned with barrier penetration for home defense, but I am concerned with over penetration hence the lighter rounds. For carry, I'm more concerned with barrier penetration so I'm looking for a heavier round. Is this a wrong way to think?

 

[DocGKR]

Does the anatomy and physiology of an aggressor change when they are in your home?

 

[KMo1205]

No, but the threat of over penetration does with thin walls and close neighbors at home. Not sure if that makes a difference or if that is foolish thinking.

 

[Bourneshooter]

No, but the threat of over penetration does with thin walls and close neighbors at home. Not sure if that makes a difference or if that is foolish thinking.

I think based on the results around online, if a round is likely to "over penetrate" a home wall, it is likely to actually penetrate far enough to do damage to the threat/stop the threat. If it is not likely to penetrate, it is likely to not penetrate enough to stop the threat.

 

[KMo1205]

I think based on the results around online, if a round is likely to "over penetrate" a home wall, it is likely to actually penetrate far enough to do damage to the threat/stop the threat. If it is not likely to penetrate, it is likely to not penetrate enough to stop the threat.

You're right. Reread Dr. Robert's stuff and lighter 9mm and 5.56 are not the best option. From what I've read, his favorite 9mm round is Federal 147 gr. HST. For rifle, he no longer favors fragmenting OTM loads, but instead barrier blind loads like the Federal 62 gr. TBBC JSP or Winchester Ranger 64 gr. JSP. Thanks for the feedback, guys.

 

[Andy Beefcastle]

9mm: Federal Tactical Bonded 135gr +P LE9T5
45ACP: Federal Tactical Bonded 230gr +P LE45T1

.223: Federal Tactical TRU T223E 55gr Sierra BTHP

 

[pi3]

If you're on Lightfighter, here is a dedicated thread by Dr. Roberts that details the problem he saw: http://www.lightfighter.net/topic/9-mm-147-gr-le-testing

He posted the same information on pistol-forum in an already started thread, which does not require registration to read: http://pistol-forum.com/showthread....Soon-To-Buy-In&p=289886&viewfull=1#post289886

The rest of that thread is fairly interesting, too.

John Johnston of Ballistic Radio also saw less than satisfactory results in another thread, and doesn't seemed to have resolved the issue yet: http://pistol-forum.com/showthread....7-grain-PT-9mm&p=269596&viewfull=1#post269596

I don't have Dr. Roberts's actual contact information, but I'm sure many people here correspond with him, given how he is a fixture in the community, and can help put you in touch with him.

Here's what the content of the post in question is:

So we had an opportunity to run some 9 mm 147 gr comparison testing for an LE agency, including gel and accuracy testing using a gen3 G19 with OEM barrel.

Had some surprising results.

9 mm Speer 147 gr G2 at 955 fps (accuracy 95-0x):
BG: Pen = 13.8”, RD = 0.53”, RL = 0.45”, RW = 147.5 gr
4LD: Pen = 20+”, RD = 0.35”, RL = 0.65”, RW = 147.0 gr (all rounds failed to expand)
AG: Pen = 10.5”, RD = 0.65”, RL = 0.54”, RW = 147.5 gr

9 mm Win 147 gr RA9B at 953 fps (accuracy 95-3x):
BG: Pen = 13.8”, RD = 0.55”, RL = 0.46”, RW = 147.5 gr
4LD: Pen = 15.5”, RD = 0.53”, RL = 0.50”, RW = 147.9 gr
AG: Pen = 17.5”, RD = 0.44”, RL = 0.53”, RW = 147.1 gr

9 mm Fed 147 gr HST at 998 fps (accuracy 96-4x):
BG: Pen = 12.5”, RD = 0.63”, RL = 0.42”, RW = 147.4 gr
4LD: Pen = 12.5”, RD = 0.56”, RL = 0.48”, RW = 147.5 gr
AG: Pen = 12.5”, RD = 0.63”, RL = 0.48”, RW = 146.6 gr


Bare Gel: Far left is Fed 147 gr HST control; top row is Speer 147 gr G2 PT, bottom row is Winchester 147 gr RA9B JHP


4LD: Far left is Fed 147 gr HST control; top row is Speer 147 gr G2 PT, bottom row is Winchester 147 gr RA9B JHP

While the bare gel results were as expected, this lot of Speer G2 did not fare well in the 4 LD testing. Keep in mind that early batches of HST had similar issues. ATK is sending out a new lot for us to re-test.

As usual, Fed 147 gr HST demonstrated outstanding performance--very consistent and highly recommended for LE agency use.

Which of the 9mm loads on Dr. R's list are the softest shooting? Sorry if this is a little off topic.

 

[Bourneshooter]

Issued:

64gr Gold Dot in 5.56
Federal Tactical Slug and 8 pellet Buck (threw the boxes away so not sure on specs beyond that)
Golden Saber 185gr non bonded or 165gr bonded in .40. Supposed to be swapped out with Bonded Gold Dot when the ammo shipment arrives.

9mm is for off duty/BUG guns and is mostly all Golden Saber left for issuing out. Not sure the weight as I hoarded the 147gr Ranger SXT.
.45 is 230gr HST

UPDATE:

Swapping out all dept .40 to 165gr Bonded Gold Dot.
Waiting on shipment of Gold Dot in .380, 147gr 9mm and 230gr .45.

 

[Chuck Haggard]

Which of the 9mm loads on Dr. R's list are the softest shooting? Sorry if this is a little off topic.

The 147gr Ranger-T and most of the non +p 124gr loads are rather low recoil in my experience.

 

[JD Williams]

Agree on the 147 Ranger T. Feels softer than 147 HST. If you are into "feelings"...lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pi3]

The 147gr Ranger-T and most of the non +p 124gr loads are rather low recoil in my experience.

Thanks. By the way, this site has been a wealth of info.

 

[Chuck Haggard]

Thanks. By the way, this site has been a wealth of info.

Thanks, that is in fact the whole point of the site.

 

[Horsehide]

Nothing too exotic: Ranger RA9B in the G17s and Mk318 Mod 0 in the carbines.

 

[22Mike]

9mm:Barnes TAC-XPD 115gr. It made Dr. Roberts list and of the 9mm on the list it seems to have the least recoil impulse. Recoil is the same as my 115gr practice stuff.
5.56: Black Hills 77gr SMK OTM. Best non barrier round I can purchase easily and approved by Dr. Roberts.
My advice is always to look at Dr. Roberts list and go for the round on the list that has the least recoil. Obviously check for reliability and accuracy from your firearms.

 

[The Virginian]

Feel like the odd ball here. I run the 147grn. Win. Train and Defend, and they do indeed shoot to the same poa/poi. Well for me anyway. YMMV.

 

[Arete]

Currently we issue:
Speer GD 147/9mm, 180/.40, 230/.45, 135/.38, 55/5.56
Speer Lawman 95 FMJ for the .380s.