SCOUT Rifles

[Longeye]

OP- Did you ever get your GP rifle?

I have been working on a Winchester M70 compact classic project that shows some promise. The action is slick, trigger decent, and Talley Unies save some weight. I am dropping the barreled action into a full-size stock, as I am a full-size rifleman. Its feature set won't be as comprehensive as the Steyr or Ruger, but I expect it to be a useful GP rifle when finished.

 

[Longeye]

My project is still ongoing. I been using it as a reward for finishing projects around the place, so the work has gone slowly. But it is now bedded, the full-size trigger, action bolts and magazine are installed, the scope is mounted. I hope to get it zeroed this week.
I ended up putting a Leupold 2-7x 33mm on it with the LR duplex reticle. The original idea was a straight 4x to prove a point, but I wanted that particular reticle and it was not available in the 4x.
The stock was a brand-new unfinished factory stock I found on eBay for a Jackson. I installed side QD sling mounts as well as one in the bottom of the pistol grip. This stock, pretty as it is will be the test bed. When I get things finalized, I will get McMillan to make me a duplicate on a HTG.
I am debating putting some MOE 1913 segments on the forend for WML and Atlas bipod. But the rifle is svelte just the way it is. Maybe just one rail for the light....
The sling is still up in the air as well. I really like VTAC slings on my SBR's, but they just are not the same on a bolt gun.

 

[Tactical22]

I've been pretty impressed with the Ruger scout rifles I've handled, and I have an Enfield waiting in the safe to be turned into a scout rifle one of these days. That said, I often find myself wondering if Cooper would still hold to the Scout Rifle concept were he alive today. I would bet money he would be advocating a lightweight .308 AR carbine with a low power variable optic. I love scout rifles, but with 21 century technology and options, I just don't see the point as much anymore.

 

[Longeye]

The Ruger scout rifles need the bolt race cleaned up with lapping compound. And subjectively the OEM muzzle thing needs swapped for a Vortex. Otherwise, the synthetic version is kinda GTG.
The Col. was remarkably dogmatic, even considering the concept he was pushing was pretty radical. I would have been surprised if he ever found a gas gun he liked.
That said, the SCAR 17 is very close to his ideal. It is exceptionally close on weight, especially if a Aimpoint T2 is mounted.
It is likely to be the next project after this M70 is finished.

 

[Chris Taylor]

@Tactical22 , I kinda doubt it. As Longeye mentioned, Col Cooper was pretty... stuck in his ways. Plus, the Scout concept wasn't meant to be a fighting rifle, tho it was envisioned in the original concept, but a "do it all" rifle.

A bolt gun still has some advantages, especially in the backcountry, as they're generally less complicated, with less to break. Think "frontier scout" as opposed to "military scout".

 

[Tactical22]

Makes sense in that light, thanks you two. I've carry a .308 AR around on multi-day all day hunting trips with lots of walking, but I would probably find a lighter, handier bolt gun easier. The Scout concept that would be most useful to me would be a 14.5" Enfield Scout with a pinned Vortex in 7.62x39 that takes AK mags. In my neck of the woods, it would be perfect for hunting hogs, and suitable for deer. Unfortunately, Special Interest Arms discontinued their conversions, and XS Sight systems discontinued their Enfield Scout Mounts, so it's very much a back-burner project now.

 

[Longeye]

How about a 14.5" bolt chambered for .300 BLK and using 20 round PMAGs? Reliable mags are easier to find, easier to carry, the round is more accurate and available with better bullets, the action can be much lighter and shorter than a Enfield, etc.

Picture a Model Seven setup this way, or some such.

 

[Longeye]

Better yet a brand new straight pull action featuring locking lugs that are Steyr style, meaning they are at 12 and 6 o'clock when the bolt is feeding rounds.

 

[Tactical22]

That actually sounds very handy. Or you could give it a 10" bbl with a permanently attached can. Or give it an integral suppressor. And then mount a Aimpoint on the scout mount... Yeah, I don't know if Cooper would like that, either.

 

[Longeye]

Done right, Cooper might have gone there. Regardless of what the purists think Cooper thought, a suppressor actually fits in very well with the role that Cooper laid out as Scout ideal.
He pictured it as a rifle for one man slipping through an area gathering information and leaving no trace. A suppressor helps that objective.
An integral suppressor would take care of some the balance, length, and aesthetic problems that most designs have.

 

[Chris Taylor]

How about a 14.5" bolt chambered for .300 BLK...
Picture a Model Seven setup this way, or some such.

A buddy has this set up, and it's a darn handy deer/pig rifle.

Only "issue", if we're sticking to Col Cooper's Scout concept, is that it has the requirement to kill a 300kg critter at 300m, which the 300blk is incapable of.

If we're willing to make our own requirements (which I'm all for) the M7 in 300blk is a contender.

 

[MrMurphy]

Cooper wasn't a fan of electronic sights, because "in the 80s" when the concept first came to be, they sucked giant sweaty donkey balls. Up until basically the Comp M and Comp M2, this was still the case. Others have shot GSRs with Aimpoints mounted (sometimes also with a flip magnifier) and appeared quite happy.

 

[AresGear_Jake]

I would think an Aimpoint and a 4-6X magnifier would make a great combo...if you know your holds past 300yds. Inside 300, no need for the magnifier to make hits, only for target id and discrimination.


- Jake

 

[Longeye]

Jake, your Steyr will nicely support a T1 or T2.
For the magnifier, we need a new mount that carries the glass lower so it will line up with a low mounted T series.

 

[Longeye]

Since we are talking integrated suppressor, is anyone aware of a company that will build custom suppressors?

Are there research based companies that will let you use their baffle stack in a custom tube configuration?

This concept needs an over the barrel design that features maybe 70% of the can overlapping the barrel.

With the pronounced shoulder on the RGSR barrel, the rear cap of the suppressor could be made to index off that shoulder. Primary expansion could occur between there and the barrel muzzle. The rest of the can would only have to extend 3-4" past the muzzle threads. There would be some engineering required to make the baffle stack work optimally, but I think it could be done.

 

[Tactical22]

Integral Arms and John Tibbetts both do custom integral suppression projects. I haven't worked with them yet, but I know they are out there. I'm really intrigued by integral suppression, and like the benefits on paper, but I'm hesitant to pay someone to go drilling into my barrels.

 

[Singlestackpat]

I was an RSO/medic at an industry media event last summer where more than a couple personalities preferred the Savage Model 11 Scout to the Ruger. IIRC, it had to do with the shorter LOP of the Ruger and inability/difficulty to run the bolt while shouldered. Guys were doing a modified El Pres at 50yds with both rifles and the Savage crowd seemed to run em faster. They both had long eye relief (4x?) scopes on them.

 

[Longeye]

Was that Richard Manns Scout Rifle Conference?

I am still hoping for FN/Winchester to get in the game. They have the most refined and ready to go action out of the box. On paper weight is problem with the Winchester Classic action, but my M70 project has become my preferred rifle for running around the ranch with. Other than duty stuff, the AR's have not left the house in a month. The M70 Compact/Fullsize FW is just a better fit for what I need on the ranch.

 

[MrMurphy]

Unless they were running the GSR with most of the spacers removed, LOP has never been an issue I've seen? Every GSR I've handled (have yet to actually shoot one) has had all or most of the spacers installed, and LOP was similar to any standard hunting stock (a little long for some people but usable). If they only had say 1 spacer in, yeah, I could see it being an issue for non-long-armed people. Even with a short LOP you can work the bolt on most rifles if you move your head...it'll still be shouldered.

And yes, for Cooper's original idea, I think an integral suppressor would probably have given him warm fuzzies.

 

[Singlestackpat]

Longeye, it was the Outdoor Sportsman Media group.