Tom Givens, of Rangemaster Firearms Training, tracks the guns & the carry method used in the match at his yearly conference. For the 2018 conference, of the 186 shooters, 70.5% shot Glocks, 23.2% shot M&Ps, the other 6.3% shot 1911s, Beretta, H&K, Canik, or CZ. No Walthers though
Been using one flavor or another of M&P since ’10. All of mine have been thumb safety versions. I went back to them on and off duty at the start of last year. While they are carried by a decent percentage of people, there is just a lack of after-market support for them outside of Apex and a few other places.
While we issue Gen 4 G17s and G19s, we have a pretty decent number of 9mm, .40, and .45ACP M&Ps.
As an example of the support issue, Raven just made Perun holsters for a couple Glock pistols that haven’t been released yet (and Glocks with several different lights) but they still haven’t made them for the M&P and the M&P/WML.
I’ve spent a fair amount of money with Apex and the one other company that early on made M&P stuff. Now, I am s-l-o-w-l-y seeing more companies making after-market M&P accessories; yesterday I saw that Overwatch has entered the M&P market.
Unity developed a version of their Atom mount for the M&Ps, Doc Roberts among others has slides with it. Unfortunately, they never went commercial with it. Agency Arms has something similar in the works. Getting it into production would be helpful. Faxon now has after-market, optics cut 1.0 slides available. 2.0 full-size and compact versions would be most welcome.
Coming from a couple decades of 1911 platform use on and off-duty plus training and some competition, I prefer a frame mounted thumb safety – especially on a work gun. As PatMac is fond of saying, the safety is always an enabler, never a disabler. Seriously, it may aid in the event of a weapon retention scenario. When working for a ready position, it serves as a final conscious step.
Others have mentioned the grip size, shape concerns about Glocks. Going back to the pre-Sigma days S&W had done a bunch of hand size and shape research. To me, that showed in the design of the M&P frame especially with the adjustable backstraps.
’10 – I switched from twenty years’ worth of 1911 to a 5” M&P45 with a PC action job for duty use. Carried their Commander size pistol in plain clothes and off-duty. Liked it, 10 to 14rd magazines were nice, just didn’t like it enough to dump the 1911s for.
’12 – switched to the M&P9 fulltime with a MRDS on the work gun. After a year as a beta tester, I dumped the MRDS and kept the M&P9.
In mid ’14, I did start carrying a Gen 4 G17 on-duty and a G19 off-duty. It was a work issue as we switched from Gen 4 G22s (having replaced our Gen 3 G22s with them) to G17s and G19s. Did it in case there were concerns about switching to issued 9mm pistols.
Anyway, start of last year, I went back to the M&P9. After I picked up a full-size 2.0, I ran it through Todd Green’s 2K round count test. Clean it, lube it before you start and go two thousand without any cleaning or lubrication. Record all of the stoppages. Over several days during a teaching stint at Gunsite, I ran the test. Zero stoppages. It’s posted over on Pistol-forum.
The 1.0 9mms did have some issues – mag release failing, trigger feel (gritty & lack of reset), and accuracy. The mag release was fixed really quick. Apex Tactical solved the trigger problem early on. But the perceived accuracy issue hurt them. It wasn’t all of the guns, but it seemed to be enough. Then Apex started making barrels as did others. Additionally, one manufacturer who was working on mag wells stopped due to inconsistent frame dimensions.
The 2.0s do not seem to have any of those issues.
Now, oddly enough & Bob Moran mentioned it, a whole shit load of people forget / forgot the issues Glock had (has). I can clearly recall Peter A Kasler, an early glockpohile, in my Office training room doing mandatory product upgrades – RECALLS – on personally owned Glocks while Waco came to its fiery conclusion on the TV in the background. Then there are the .40cal debacles – Gen 3 & all its internal variations and WML failures as well as the Gen 4 recoil springs problems. Btw, just how many versions of G22 magazines are there? As well as extraction, ejection, and recoil spring problems with the early Gen 4 9mms.
Looking at the state of this pistol and its supporting items, I’d really have to be seriously impressed (with significant advantages) by another new platform to consider switching.
Been using one flavor or another of M&P since ’10. All of mine have been thumb safety versions. I went back to them on and off duty at the start of last year. While they are carried by a decent percentage of people, there is just a lack of after-market support for them outside of Apex and a few other places.
While we issue Gen 4 G17s and G19s, we have a pretty decent number of 9mm, .40, and .45ACP M&Ps.
As an example of the support issue, Raven just made Perun holsters for a couple Glock pistols that haven’t been released yet (and Glocks with several different lights) but they still haven’t made them for the M&P and the M&P/WML.
I’ve spent a fair amount of money with Apex and the one other company that early on made M&P stuff. Now, I am s-l-o-w-l-y seeing more companies making after-market M&P accessories; yesterday I saw that Overwatch has entered the M&P market.
Unity developed a version of their Atom mount for the M&Ps, Doc Roberts among others has slides with it. Unfortunately, they never went commercial with it. Agency Arms has something similar in the works. Getting it into production would be helpful. Faxon now has after-market, optics cut 1.0 slides available. 2.0 full-size and compact versions would be most welcome.
Coming from a couple decades of 1911 platform use on and off-duty plus training and some competition, I prefer a frame mounted thumb safety – especially on a work gun. As PatMac is fond of saying, the safety is always an enabler, never a disabler. Seriously, it may aid in the event of a weapon retention scenario. When working for a ready position, it serves as a final conscious step.
Others have mentioned the grip size, shape concerns about Glocks. Going back to the pre-Sigma days S&W had done a bunch of hand size and shape research. To me, that showed in the design of the M&P frame especially with the adjustable backstraps.
’10 – I switched from twenty years’ worth of 1911 to a 5” M&P45 with a PC action job for duty use. Carried their Commander size pistol in plain clothes and off-duty. Liked it, 10 to 14rd magazines were nice, just didn’t like it enough to dump the 1911s for.
’12 – switched to the M&P9 fulltime with a MRDS on the work gun. After a year as a beta tester, I dumped the MRDS and kept the M&P9.
In mid ’14, I did start carrying a Gen 4 G17 on-duty and a G19 off-duty. It was a work issue as we switched from Gen 4 G22s (having replaced our Gen 3 G22s with them) to G17s and G19s. Did it in case there were concerns about switching to issued 9mm pistols.
Anyway, start of last year, I went back to the M&P9. After I picked up a full-size 2.0, I ran it through Todd Green’s 2K round count test. Clean it, lube it before you start and go two thousand without any cleaning or lubrication. Record all of the stoppages. Over several days during a teaching stint at Gunsite, I ran the test. Zero stoppages. It’s posted over on Pistol-forum.
The 1.0 9mms did have some issues – mag release failing, trigger feel (gritty & lack of reset), and accuracy. The mag release was fixed really quick. Apex Tactical solved the trigger problem early on. But the perceived accuracy issue hurt them. It wasn’t all of the guns, but it seemed to be enough. Then Apex started making barrels as did others. Additionally, one manufacturer who was working on mag wells stopped due to inconsistent frame dimensions.
The 2.0s do not seem to have any of those issues.
Now, oddly enough & Bob Moran mentioned it, a whole shit load of people forget / forgot the issues Glock had (has). I can clearly recall Peter A Kasler, an early glockpohile, in my Office training room doing mandatory product upgrades – RECALLS – on personally owned Glocks while Waco came to its fiery conclusion on the TV in the background. Then there are the .40cal debacles – Gen 3 & all its internal variations and WML failures as well as the Gen 4 recoil springs problems. Btw, just how many versions of G22 magazines are there? As well as extraction, ejection, and recoil spring problems with the early Gen 4 9mms.
Looking at the state of this pistol and its supporting items, I’d really have to be seriously impressed (with significant advantages) by another new platform to consider switching.